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Wendy · 4th-April-2005, 12:41 PM

This has been inspired by the back-leading thread but since I couldn't get to sleep on Saturday thinking about it, I thought it deserved its own thread !!!!

Right ! I hope this is a biggie cos it feels like one to me !!!!

Let's take the yoyo... this might not be perfect CEROC script but you'll get my drift)

Step back on 1
Step in (hand to shoulder) 2
Push her out 3
Step round to face L shape arms 4
Turn her 5
Step back 6
Return 7
Step back 8

Well something like that..

I feel that this is not really explained in number terms (some teachers do this more than others) and it's certainly never explained that one count matches one beat in the music..

)

So... the class progresses with instructions of each movement as above but without the numbers... and the teacher says " to a count 5,6,7,8" (which must be Greek to some people BTW as it's not explained) and then the instructions are given to a regularish beat but still no numbers... (btw when choreopgraphed routines are taught (properly IMHO) you learn the numbers once you know the movements.. so you can do the moves to a slow count and then to a faster count and THEN to the music and it could be to ANY music cos the counts match the beats.. obviously to a choreaographed routine the moves MATCH the music.. and when you think about it, the 4 beginners moves taught at CEROC make up a mini choreographed routine right ????)....still with me ?????..

Then when the music starts in freestyle and no-one is shouting out the movements in time to the music, the men get the timing of the movements (the yoyo here) very wrong !!!! They do all the movements but they rush the bit between counts 3 and 4 cos they don't know that it takes a whole BEAT to go to the shoulder and then a whole BEAT to push her out.. and then the whole things falls apart... and of course our sweet lady beginners who HAVE picked up the count thing (maybe that is a woman thing or maybe we have more experience of learning dance routines cos even as wee girls we are trying to be Kylie or whatever!!)... try to keep to the same count cos they CAN match the count to the beat !!!!!!

And that's propably where back-leading starts !!!!! Right in your first beginner class !!!!!

So the solution surely must be to do the move to

1. physical instructions

then

2. to a count with numbers only (slow count then faster count)

then

3. to a count with numbers only in time to music (slow track first and then a faster one*)

* and if you went even further with this you could only play music before the end of taxi time that suited beginners' ability - I am sure most djs do this of course without the taxis mentoning it every other week

BTW I did a cabaret once where the teachers didn't know how many counts there were in certain moves/sequences and was told to "listen to the music"... I nearly went off my head !!!!!!! With numbers you can do the moves to ANY music and indeed to NO music !!!! the same perfect way EVERY time !!!!

Wxxx

4th-April-2005, 12:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
Wendy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Versailles (yeah, in the chateau itself !) Posts: 1,458 Rep Power: 4 Reputation Total: 270	Dancing by numbers.... This has been inspired by the back-leading thread but since I couldn't get to sleep on Saturday thinking about it, I thought it deserved its own thread !!!! Right ! I hope this is a biggie cos it feels like one to me !!!! Let's take the yoyo... this might not be perfect CEROC script but you'll get my drift) Step back on 1 Step in (hand to shoulder) 2 Push her out 3 Step round to face L shape arms 4 Turn her 5 Step back 6 Return 7 Step back 8 Well something like that.. I feel that this is not really explained in number terms (some teachers do this more than others) and it's certainly never explained that one count matches one beat in the music.. ) So... the class progresses with instructions of each movement as above but without the numbers... and the teacher says " to a count 5,6,7,8" (which must be Greek to some people BTW as it's not explained) and then the instructions are given to a regularish beat but still no numbers... (btw when choreopgraphed routines are taught (properly IMHO) you learn the numbers once you know the movements.. so you can do the moves to a slow count and then to a faster count and THEN to the music and it could be to ANY music cos the counts match the beats.. obviously to a choreaographed routine the moves MATCH the music.. and when you think about it, the 4 beginners moves taught at CEROC make up a mini choreographed routine right ????)....still with me ?????.. Then when the music starts in freestyle and no-one is shouting out the movements in time to the music, the men get the timing of the movements (the yoyo here) very wrong !!!! They do all the movements but they rush the bit between counts 3 and 4 cos they don't know that it takes a whole BEAT to go to the shoulder and then a whole BEAT to push her out.. and then the whole things falls apart... and of course our sweet lady beginners who HAVE picked up the count thing (maybe that is a woman thing or maybe we have more experience of learning dance routines cos even as wee girls we are trying to be Kylie or whatever!!)... try to keep to the same count cos they CAN match the count to the beat !!!!!! And that's propably where back-leading starts !!!!! Right in your first beginner class !!!!! So the solution surely must be to do the move to 1. physical instructions then 2. to a count with numbers only (slow count then faster count) then 3. to a count with numbers only in time to music (slow track first and then a faster one) and if you went even further with this you could only play music before the end of taxi time that suited beginners' ability - I am sure most djs do this of course without the taxis mentoning it every other week BTW I did a cabaret once where the teachers didn't know how many counts there were in certain moves/sequences and was told to "listen to the music"... I nearly went off my head !!!!!!! With numbers you can do the moves to ANY music and indeed to NO music !!!! the same perfect way EVERY time !!!! Wxxx Last edited by Wendy : 4th-April-2005 at 12:47 PM.