Eye Contact

[Pete]

I can do, just about, the beginners moves. I can, sort of almost, do my 2 intermediate moves. I occasionally dance in time with the music. Once I nearly hit a break. But the one thing I'm really struggling with at the moment is eye contact when dancing.

Basically I either find it very difficult to look at the woman (particularly if she is pretty) so do the whole dance looking at her hands/my feet. Or occasionally I'll dance with a woman who gives lots of eye contact and smiles a great deal at which point I feel I must reciprocate and I end up with this fixed manic looking grin on my face. I think it's more of a shyness/etiquette thing than anything else - I don't NEED to look at my feet.

This may be symptomatic of my lack of social skills generally but I'm wondering if anyone else has ever encountered this problem? :sorry

Pete

[JamesGeary]

Eye contact you can just do. Play a game where you look at her pupil then her iris color, then the whites, then a the bridge of her nose, then her eyelashes. Then do it again but change your sequence. Then keep doing this trying to do a different sequence each time, mathematically there are 32 of them. It'll probably take 8 tracks until you can finish without making a mistake.

Only smile if you feel like it.

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Pete
I can do, just about, the beginners moves. I can, sort of almost, do my 2 intermediate moves. I occasionally dance in time with the music. Once I nearly hit a break. But the one thing I'm really struggling with at the moment is eye contact when dancing.

I remember this only too well, though in my case the problem was looking wayyyyyy too serious, rather than not looking at all.

Learning to do something new is usually an experience that brings its traumas (except in James' case - SLAP ).

To start with, there is a lot to think about, and the basics take up all your concentration - there is very little spare capacity to finesse what you do.

Later, as the basics get easier, they require less of your concentration, and you have more space to think about other things than the mechanics (eg eye contact, smiling, what to do with the spare arm, musicality etc)

If, at the moment, you're really dancing in time with the music only some of the time, I would suggest that you stop attempting intermediate moves and hitting breaks for the time being. It is far more important to dance in time, than it is to dance complicated moves.

The good news, of course, is that if you know when you're not in time with the music, it's overload/unfamiliarity that's the problem, not an inability to hear the rhythm.

Practise dancing simple beginners moves in freestyle until you can do them smoothly, in time with the music, with a clear but unforced lead, and as it gets easier, you'll find that looking at your partner also becomes easier quite naturally - because you're starting to think about dancing with her, rather than how to connect a comb to a hatchback.

Chris

PS Keep posting. And don't pay any attention to these dance god oiks that say "oh that, yeah, that's easy, just do it..."

[Neil]

Originally posted by Pete
so do the whole dance looking at her hands

Can't you find anything more interesting to look at?

Seriously though, the question of eye contact can sometimes be a little tricky. Too little, and it looks like you being aloof; too much, and it can start feeling a bit weird (in some cases, depending on the music and your partner, you can't have too much eye contact, but that's another matter). You might want to look at your partner briefly, smile, then look away for a while, then look back at her etc. etc. Whatever feels comfortable for you - there are no hard and fast rules.

As ChrisA rightly says, these things become easier once the moves are "hardwired" into your brain and you have some spare mental capacity for all the little things that actually make dancing fun.

Oh, and I have also learned that if you spend the entire dance looking round the room eyeing up all the other talent, this is considered something of a 'faux pas' (chicks, eh?)



Neil

[Chris]

James' suggestions are ones I'd support. It's worth getting into to different degrees but without worrying too much about it at beginners stage.

I've got some simple exercises for it you can try if you like - but PM me. If I go on about kinetic imagery on teh forum it will p*ss some people off

[Minnie M]

I was told that eye contact also keeps the dancing frame which will help to become a great dancer

(hard to do all the time, without the guy thinking I am coming on to him, yes even me )

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Neil
Oh, and I have also learned that if you spend the entire dance looking round the room eyeing up all the other talent, this is considered something of a 'faux pas' (chicks, eh?)

Not only that, but on a busy dance floor, you're expected to know where everyone else around you is, without looking at them...

A month or two ago on a heaving floor and muppets all around, I was having to look around quite a bit, so that I could use the spaces...

... and she accused me of eyeing up the talent

I explained... but I wasn't convinced she believed me

Chris

[Yogi_Bear]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Not only that, but on a busy dance floor, you're expected to know where everyone else around you is, without looking at them...

A month or two ago on a heaving floor and muppets all around, I was having to look around quite a bit, so that I could use the spaces...

... and she accused me of eyeing up the talent

I explained... but I wasn't convinced she believed me

Chris

I would say that in modern jive eye contact is not expected of beginners and is not specifically encouraged - which if so is a pity. I agree that the best course of action is to use a repertoire of simple beginners moves, clearly executed and in time to the music. Simple moves well led must be better than showly or difficult moves badly led. You can easily develop eye contact at the very start of the dance. A good time to look away is when you need to check the space on the floor from a safety angle. As you become more confident with the moves you will find that establishing a connection with your partner comes more easily. And believe me, it's worth it for the pleasure of good eye contact with your partner, though I accept that for relative beginners that may be a hard point to put across.

[fruitcake]

Originally posted by Pete

This may be symptomatic of my lack of social skills generally but I'm wondering if anyone else has ever encountered this problem? :sorry

Pete

Well Pete, not that I'm an expert, I'm still fairly new, what I would say is see what the lady is doing, if she is smiling at you and looking at you can can reciprocate occasionally. When I first started, some of the guys fixed their eyes on you the WHOLE time without smiling, though I believe its because they were concentrating on the moves, and watching what the woman is doing.When I was a beginner I felt freaked, but now I'm used to it and generally smile at them,but after a few weeks I didnt even think about it.
Fruitcake

[Lory]

I'm afraid, I think it just looks plain rude (whether it's intended or not, is another issue) not to look and smile occasionally, I find it quite off putting, if someone constantly looks over my shoulder or at the floor, it feels to me, like they would rather NOT be dancing with me.

You know, you could actually explain to your partner, you've not been dancing very long and you have to concentrate really hard.....If someone say's that to me, I usually melt and forgive them a million sins and just give words of encouragement!

I suppose it's just like talking to someone (and looking at them), some people find it easy, some don't! But people who don't look at you, do tend to look a bit shifty or disinterested!
Sorry, just my opinion!:sorry:

Mind you, theres a BIG difference between 'looking' and 'staring,' oh dear, how DOES one begin to explain????

By the way James, What colour are MY eyes then?

[DavidB]

I probably make eye contact about 4 or 5 times a night - typically when I'm not leading anything. I might look at the lady's face a lot more, but that is different to eye contact. I find eye contact can be uncomfortable.

Usually I watch to see what her body is doing (so I can figure out what might work next), or I am looking around to try to find space.

David

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Lory
...Mind you, theres a BIG difference between 'looking' and 'staring,' oh dear, how DOES one begin to explain????
...

Oh that's simple enough..sort of. Staring is the look in Charles Manson's eyes (unfortunately I suffer from this ), and looking is the look in Catherine McCormack's (the woman from Braveheart and Born Romantic - phroar ).

[Lynn]

Originally posted by Neil
Oh, and I have also learned that if you spend the entire dance looking round the room eyeing up all the other talent, this is considered something of a 'faux pas' (chicks, eh?)
Neil

Very true!!

I’m still a beginner too, and still working through a lot of these things. I think no eye contact at all during a dance is not good, even if you are a beginner, as it makes the person feel you are not dancing with them, even the odd smile and glance is good.

Does anyone else find some moves suit more eye contact than others? We were doing a wrap walk around thingy (sorry, don’t know the proper name, as I said, still a beginner!) and it seemed to work really well if we gazed into each other’s eyes…

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by ChrisA
PS Keep posting. And don't pay any attention to these dance god oiks that say "oh that, yeah, that's easy, just do it..."

Oh that. Yeah, that's easy. Just do it.

(Sorry, had to)

Steve

[Pete]

Thanks for all the advice and tips.

I'll experiment a bit on Tuesday at the Jive Bar (or is Tuesday that place in Gt Portland St?). I'll be the hesitant looking bloke dancing with his eyes tightly shut.

Pete

[Jon]

Originally posted by ChrisA
and she accused me of eyeing up the talent

I explained... but I wasn't convinced she believed me

Chris

I accused Taz of doing this last night, I was convinced she was looking at this new young guy with muscles as there were lots of sideways glances when she should have been looking lovingly into my eyes.

Still not sure I believe her explaination

[Minnie M]

woops - sorry changed my mind and too late to delete now!

[Gadget]

If you find eye contact hard, or want to scan the dance floor {for moves } with out 'breaking' the flow of the dance, then utilise more moves that have the lady's back to you, or you have your back to them - just make sure that you watch them either enter into it, or exit the move to maintain the look of "interest". (baskets, yo-yos, man-spins...)
I also use the trick of looking where the 'center' of my partner will be when turning her; ie looking down to the right before wrapping in.
Another one is following the 'lead' hand and making it 'big'.

I also find that I grin at the end of any 'tricky' move {not that it's intentional} - either it's a "cool it worked!" grin or an "almost screwed that one up!" grin or even a "we got away with it!?" grin

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Pete
...I'll experiment a bit on Tuesday at the Jive Bar (or is Tuesday that place in Gt Portland St?). I'll be the hesitant looking bloke dancing with his eyes tightly shut.
Pete

Tuesday would be:

**ISH** 229 Great Portland St, W1W
New Tuesday night in W1 starting 6th January 2004
Cliff & Penny teaching at this modern air conditioned hall with a beautiful sprung floor.

If you open your etes long enough you may see someone lurking in the corner with a beer...that'll be me If you see me come over and say hi and we can regale ourselves with converserations of dance-floor nerves and inadequacies

Hope to see you there...actually, hope to be there!

Steve.

[Pete]

Originally posted by Boomer
Tuesday would be:

**ISH** 229 Great Portland St, W1W
New Tuesday night in W1 starting 6th January 2004
Cliff & Penny teaching at this modern air conditioned hall with a beautiful sprung floor.

In that case I'll be the one with his eyes tightly shut energetically jumping up and down to test the springiness of the 'sprung floor'. Boing! Boing!

And hopefully we'll be able to have a chat about the futility of it all