Bad Ceroc Night

[spindr]

Ok, I have a lot lot more appreciation for beginner leaders at the moment, especially in freestyle -- I've just come back from a Salsa freestyle, and it's probably the first one where I haven't had that "rabbit in the headlights" look for the entire duration of every single dance -- though one partner did say she could hear me thinking
[This is after over a year of classes; I can lead advanced salsa routines in class; but thinking about which move comes next -- arggghhh!].

And the problem is that when it goes wrong -- you start getting stressed, and embarrassed and then off of the beat and then you have to restart -- and all the time your partner's waiting around patiently for you to "entertain" them, and getting embarrassed for you -- which gets you even more stressed. And then mercifully the track finishes. Add in the "She's already seen all my four moves" feeling and you can feel quite disheartened. At this point a smile (even a long
suffering one) helps immensely -- "Like, wow a smile, maybe I'm not a complete idiot" -- there's probably a whole thread here about "faking" but I'll let the baser membership comment thereon

If you're lucky you can make a joke of it -- my favourite at the moment being "I'm glad Salsa's got so many beats -- at least I can manage to hit one of them" -- did I mention I'm not a commedian. Other than that -- reduce both your stress levels and try things out quietly -- most venues have a quiet corridor where you can just walk moves through quietly. Bear in mind, there's quite a stress level on the guy in that if he sees you dance the step with a different leader, then obviously the problem must be with him.

Don't forget despite all evidence to the contrary, we were all beginners at least once

SpinDr.

[Andy McGregor]

Last night my wife, Sue, and I went to our first West Coast Swing class in Bisley. We were both there as complete beginners. We did the beginners class and sat out the intermediate.

I've been doing partner dances for many years but haven't been a beginner at anything for a while. I've been known to dance 'til dawn 3 nights in succession, but the first thing I noticed last night was how tiring being a beginner is. Practicing my 3 moves over and over and concentrating on them had me worn out with an hour to go. If I hadn't had people with me I think I'd have just gone home and slept. It just felt like I'd got as much as I could out of the night and would have just been prolonging the agony to stay 'til the end. But I stayed 'til the end, watched some good people, saw a move I thought I could do and increased my number of moves by 33%.

But I've been a beginner before and know it's just a phase you go through. The best advice I can give you is not to rush it, don't be in a hurry. You will get it because everyone does. We've all got the same equipment as those great dancers, we've just got to learn how to use it the same way as them. And the way we do that is exactly the same way we learn anything else, go to classes and practice. The more classes you go to and the more practice you get the faster you will progress. But what's the hurry, enjoy the newness of it all and try to have fun

On the subject of dancing with husbands, wives, girlfriends, this can be difficult. If a stranger says you can do something better by holding your hand lower you're grateful for the advice - if your husband says that you might see it as criticism and then it's the start of an argument. My advice is to practice the routine together at home a bit to help remember the moves but at the classes try to dance with the good people rather than each other, apart from possibly a few tracks. After all, if you were just going to dance together you could buy an instructional video and stay home. But do buy a beginners video because, once you've got the basics of lead and follow it will give you some new moves.

Remember, it's just for fun and absolutely everyone can learn to do it, no exceptions, so don't be put off

[jiveoholic]

The real problem came with the freestyle. We started to dance, and realised we didn't know what we were doing at all (I need really FIRM signals, remember) and just stood there, embarrassed.

So much depends on the man. After my first night I was hooked and terrified at the same time. I needed remedial lessons FAST before next week. I ordered the ceroc step cards, decided I had two problems i) getting the bouncing off each other at the right time to the music and ii) remembering the fl***ing moves.

I dealt with the first problem by connecting two pieces of string to the two door knobs of the double doors in my lounge (stop laughing!) and practiced the initial start to getting to step back on beat one and tried moves (which did not change places!).

As for the moves, I had to dance alone (with the curtains firmly shut) to music - slow music at first and then speeded it up.

It is important that the man is ahead of you and until he is, the benefit from practice together at home might be minimal.

Get the ceroc step cards or pop along to www.jiveoholic.org.uk (sorry for the sales pitch - but its there to help just you folks) - you might try the "yoyo in excruciating detail" if you like analysing things.

[Jive Brummie]

I know exactly how you feel Rougeforever and you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Sorry to say this but you're no different from everbody else when they were beginners.

When I started I was in awe at the standard of dancing and hoped to someday be able to do as I saw..... I think that was my problem.. Hind sight is a great thing, and now I think to myself how daft I was to even compare my abilities as a beginner with the abilities of an experienced dancer. Go to your classes and enjoy yourself, don't worry what other people think of your dancing....we all had to start somewhere. Give it a few months and you'll be busting moves all over the floor wondering why you were ever worried.

I remember, I even struggled with the semi-circle to the right/left, then I struggled with getting it in time to the beat of the music........... It's a learning curve, and like anything at the start, the curve is very steep.

Keep it up.........

James.........x

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
problem is, when you're feeling hopless and your confidence is in shreds it's a tough thing to do.

One of the great things I get from MJ is dancing with "hopeless" beginners, and seeing the moment when they realise that they can do it, and start to really enjoy it. Sometimes it just takes one dance. Sometimes, it is weeks before the tension disappears.

Often the experience extends far beyond the social evening, and changes their whole life.

[Gadget]

I would have liked to add somthing encouraging and helpful to this thread, but it's all been said

&ltRamblings&gt
It's the old addage "dance as if you are in alone in your bedroom with the sterio where no-one is watching."
I think that ladies can naturally dance; it's us men who throw them off. When they are dancing with us, they concentrate on trying to understand what we are telling them to do. And where they think we are telling them to move is not where or how they would normally 'feel' the music.
Dancing with another beginner involves a lot of concentration in trying to understand the miss-pronounced instructions and badly phrased sentances. If you can dance with a good dancer, then you don't need to concentrate on listening or understanding - it should be as natural and flowing as the wind moving patterns in a field of grain.
The best advice I can give is to relax and listen to the music. It's a lot of trrust to give over to your partner - like when you close your eyes and fall backwards - entrusting that your partner will catch you.
&lt/Ramblings&gt

[bobgadjet]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Background - it was my third week of ceroc. Had been enjoying it thus far.

I'd just like to add a little bit to all the very good answers you've already had. If you don't get encouragements from that, then I will never get a chance to dance with you

Echoing a lot of the previous.....
Go to more than one night a week if at all possible. You will find it easier if you do 2 nights on the trot, as what you had remembered from the pervious night is still quite fresh.

DON'T GIVE UP, please

Don't dance too much with your partner, especially don't dance ONLY with him during lessons. The only thing you will surely learn that way, is each others wrong ways of doing a move, and when you think you've just got it, you try it with somebody else when they ask you to dance, and bang goes your confidence again.

PROGRESS...... If you are such a strong minded person only wanting to lead...... in a few months you could become a Taxi dancer.....Now THERE'S an aim for you

Listen more to the music, than what is going on inside your head. Let the beat take you, and let your partner lead you. If you put the beat and feel of the music together with the feel of the lead (hopefully), the the two combine into a better dance.

There was a charming mature lady at Ashtons who started Ceroc the week before I did and she was appauling, and I MEAN appauling. She used to lead EVERYBODY in the class and would really put me off. She is no slight lady either, with a grip of iron. I thought it was me, but then others made comments to me also. After about 3 months I had not danced with her for a while as I had gone thru to intermediate, and she had stayed in the beginners.
She asked me for a dance in freestyle, and I shuddered, but being a good boy I accepted. At the end of the dance I asked if she had been to any workshops and she said NO, WHY. I told her that she was a pleasure to dance with and asked what had happened. SHe said that she didn't know, but all of a sudden something just "klicked".
I now "watch" her on the dancefloor as there is so little time to find her off it, to ask her for a dance ! !

Please don't give up. It will just klick for you one day, and I'm sure that will be soon if you follow any of the previous leads, and of course those from your dance partners

Relax, and enjoy one of the most pleasurable forms of enjoyment, apart from the obvious, and one of the best ways of getting a whole new bunch of friends with similar intersts.

[sarahw31]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Speaking from personal experience, it's hard asking good dancers to dance in the beginning, but for the most part they can remember that they were beginners once and are pleased to help.

Just to add my little bit...:sorry

I can't underestimate how good this advice is. I have been dancing now for around 18 months but have never in all that time managed to pluck up the courage to ask anyone to dance, I've always waited to be asked.
I recently went to the Bognor weekend and was initially quite frankly terrified by the standard of dancing and thought about going straight home again....but I stayed. And took the advice of a good friend and actually ASKED SOME REALLY GOOD DANCERS TO DANCE WITH ME!!

They were all very kind, and I got no bad reactions at all, quite the opposite, but the point is, by asking them to dance my dancing improved immensely over the weekend, as did my confidence.

Good luck!

[bobgadjet]

Originally posted by Rougeforever

Am looking at doing a cerocshop in March. i'm hoping by then I'll be able to at least move one arm in time to the beat.

Ceroc would be fine without music

No time like the present

And quite the contrary, it's NOTHING without GOOD music.
If you are having trouble with finding the beat, then you have to exercise. By that i mean you have to be well within earshot of the music, and if possible try to FEEL the beat.

Try this at home.....
Put on a piece of music that you may have heard at your dance night, and play it reasonable loud. Place a hand on one of the speakers, and then tap your fingers to the beat, then your toes. Progress to your feet, then both feet, "stepping" in time with the beat.
Do this until you can do the same to almost any piece of music that you wish to play.
In no time at all you will be able to "find " the beat and tempo of the dance.
When you have a little more confidenc, next time at Ceroc, ask a Taxi dancer to dance and just follow their lead whilst concentrating on that beat in the music. If necessary move much closer to the speakers, and if possible, dance as close as possible.

Too many beginners place themselves at the back of a hall so as to be less conspicuous, but are then sufficiently far enough away as to loos much of the "feel" of the music, and while you are looking for that beat, you need to be close up.

Try it, and I think you will notice a difference when you have that beat in your ear

[Retread]

Entertaining thread : I've noticed that I give most beginners a very strong lead, explaining to them in advance that the need for firm control will lessen as their experience grows. With many of my favourite partners, there's more eye contact than body contact, and signals become more a suggestion than a push.

The advice and encouragement you've been given on the forum is so true and so well-intentioned. I do hope that you'll take the opportunity of asking some of the better dancers at your usual venue to dance with you -- they're generally only too willing to help you develop the basics, just as they once did. Please do persevere in MJ, so that you can one day pass the same advice to others.