Control

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Yogi_Bear
tai chi ... maybe it has reduced any tendency I might have had to be frenetic in my dancing.

I think I need to give it a go. Someone told me I was moving my feet last night

[Yogi_Bear]

Originally posted by DavidB
I think I need to give it a go. Someone told me I was moving my feet last night

DavidB, I think you move your feet less than me, but I do tend to slide around rather than take proper steps sometimes

Seriously, though, it's interesting how martial arts and dancing could have synergies. And Bruce Lee was a ballroom dance champion....

[Bill]

Originally posted by DavidB
I think I need to give it a go. Someone told me I was moving my feet last night

oh dear................. if you start doing that I might be expected to do the same...... now behave and stand still

Will you be moving at all at the weekend ( apart from flying up here I mean) I need to learn more 'standing still but looking cool and controlled' moves

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Yogi_Bear
Seriously, though, it's interesting how martial arts and dancing could have synergies. And Bruce Lee was a ballroom dance champion....

I was watching a program last night on him (One of the discovery chanels) and his philosophys and approach to martial arts could easily be transposed with dancing: flow, smoothness of movement, observation of your partners motion, etc.

That hand/arm thing (Jeet Kung Do?) looks like it depends on the same compression/tension as lead/follow... would be interesting to learn.

[Yogi_Bear]

Originally posted by Gadget
I was watching a program last night on him (One of the discovery chanels) and his philosophys and approach to martial arts could easily be transposed with dancing: flow, smoothness of movement, observation of your partners motion, etc.

That hand/arm thing (Jeet Kung Do?) looks like it depends on the same compression/tension as lead/follow... would be interesting to learn.

Yes. I've begun to wonder whether someone will hold a martial arts class at Camber. I have to say that runnning through Tai Chi exercises outside the chalets in the morning is very restful.

[Martin]

Originally posted by Franck
I recommend you practise 'air' dancing, where you follow your partner (pick a reasonably good lead for this exercize) without actually holding their hand, but keeping your hand an inch away from theirs at all time. This will make you much more aware of how you move, and force you to take responsibility for your own momentum.
Another (similar) exercize recommended by DavidB, was to use a 5 pound note instead of hand contact, trying to maintain a connection without tearing the note!

Good luck,

Franck.

You have obviously been watching DavidB!!!
His "air dancing" looks great fun.

A couple of nights ago I tried, "one finger dancing" (use index finger of you and partner only)
Started as a mistake, we both laughed so did the rest of the dance using the one finger technique.
If you lose contact you probably are not taking your own weight.

[Bill]

Originally posted by Martin
A couple of nights ago I tried, "one finger dancing" (use index finger of you and partner only)
Started as a mistake, we both laughed so did the rest of the dance using the one finger technique.
If you lose contact you probably are not taking your own weight.

I've used the one finger technique as a guide when I'm taxi-ing to get the men to realise you don't ( and shouldn't ) grip on to the woman's hand when dancing. They are generally worried they will lose contact but see how easy it is and how it helps by allowing her hand to turn round his finger (s).

Not tried a whole dance of index fingers only though.........might give it a try. I remember having a 'shadow' dance with Lorna a couple of years ago where we danced a whole record without touching - I was knackered at the end of the track..........but it was fun

[Franck]

Originally posted by Martin
A couple of nights ago I tried, "one finger dancing" (use index finger of you and partner only)
Started as a mistake, we both laughed so did the rest of the dance using the one finger technique.
If you lose contact you probably are not taking your own weight.

Totally agree, the air dancing and the one-finger (or finger tips only) leads have been a part of most workshops, and indeed recently of the Beginners classes I have been teaching.
It's always worth remembering that each of us are responsible for our own momentum rather than relying on our partner to move us.
I often describe the lead as a pulse initiated by the leader's finger tip giving the follower the timing and the direction of travel, the follower (and leader) then have to take the necessary steps / action to follow.

[Jayne]

Originally posted by Franck
Another (similar) exercize recommended by DavidB, was to use a 5 pound note instead of hand contact, trying to maintain a connection without tearing the note!

Whilst laying awake at 3am the other morning I was thinking about this....

..I was thinking that this only teaches you part of lead and follow. The exercise assumes that 100% of leading is about "pulling" the girl around the floor. ("Pulling" suggests too much force, but you get the idea of the direction of movement.) I reckon that this only happens for about half of the dance. The rest of the time is split between spins (no contact), turns and compression - none of which work very well if being led by a £5 note. The compression aspect of dancing is one that I've only recently really clocked on to (other than loosing balance and therefore relying on my partner to hold me up - that doesn't count!!). I realised last week that I'm not the only one who's a wee bit slow on the uptake either - I tried to create compression with some people and found that there was no resistance there at all, but if I did the same with some of the advanced guys (but not wanting to name drop ) then I found perfect resistance and was easily led into the next move.

As for the whole "active following" thing on turns/returns - I know that it exists but have no idea how to do it yet!! (any advice??)

I appreciate that the £5 note excercise is great for people who grip too hard or rely too much on their partner for keeping them upright and I'm not doubting that. I was just musing over the other aspects of lead and follow...

Comments? Or should I just get more sleep??

J

[spindr]

Originally posted by Jayne
Comments? Or should I just get more sleep??

Come down to Bisley for WCS on Friday -- Paul Hunter regularly teaches compression and tension exercises as part of explaining the sugar-push.

SpinDr.

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Jayne
..I was thinking that this only teaches you part of lead and follow. The exercise assumes that 100% of leading is about "pulling" the girl around the floor.

This is an exercise designed just to teach leverage.

The associated compression exercise is to hold the £5 note just between your hand and your partners hand. If you separate then the note falls.

What it shows is that you can do more with leverage than compression, and how different pure leverage feels. It also shows just how light the leverage can be and still be followable. But you soon find out that there are many Jive moves that you can't do just using only one or the other. The majority of moves rely on constantly changing between leverage and compression.

What you want is it to be leverage and compression , not LEVERAGE AND COMPRESSION

David

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by DavidB
What you want is it to be leverage and compression , not LEVERAGE AND COMPRESSION

Though aren't leverage and compression even nicer??

Chris

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by spindr
Come down to Bisley for WCS on Friday -- Paul Hunter

Correction - that should be Paul Warden.

One thing Nigel occasionally says is that "Jive is a right hand lead dance" (he's referring to the man's right hand). Obviously this can't be totally true, as there is a lot of time where you only have a left hand hold, with no other contact. But the right hand lead on the followers back involves compression - the follower pushing back into the leader's hold, not the same as the compression in the West Coast sugar push. This does demonstrate how the left hand isn't really doing anything when you're in this position. I'm struggling to see how the £5 note exercise could work there, as you couldn't get the counterbalance effect.

Jayne, I'm hoping for some compression tomorrow!

Greg

[spindr]

Originally posted by Sheepman
Correction - that should be Paul Warden.

Wooops! Knew I shouldn't have posted in a rush.

...But the right hand lead on the followers back involves compression - the follower pushing back into the leader's hold, ... This does demonstrate how the left hand isn't really doing anything when you're in this position. I'm struggling to see how the £5 note exercise could work there, as you couldn't get the counterbalance effect.

Hmmm, I think I disagree a bit here -- if you're lucky in something like a first move exit you can get compression from the lady's right hand in your left hand *and* compression from the lady's left shoulder pushing back into your right hand. It means that the lady is really ready for the turn out.
[I've noticed this more dancing cross-body leads in salsa -- where it's more common for the men to lead double (time) turns, so the ladies need to be better prepared to dance them].

SpinDr.

[Bill]

Can someone lend me £5 so I can try some of the theory out please.............................

[Jayne]

Originally posted by Bill
Can someone lend me £5 so I can try some of the theory out please.............................

You can use a £1 note in Scotland Bill!

J

[Jayne]

Originally posted by Sheepman
Jayne, I'm hoping for some compression tomorrow!

How would you like that served Mr Sheepman??

J

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Jayne
How would you like that served Mr Sheepman??

Make sure you give him some very strong tension in his right arm, and also in his left shoulder...

[Stuart M]

Originally posted by Bill
Can someone lend me £5 so I can try some of the theory out please.............................

You're really not doing much to discourage that regional stereotype Bill...

[Jayne]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Make sure you give him some very strong tension in his right arm, and also in his left shoulder...

Are you trying to get me to take out the competition ahead of the competition???

I'm shocked.

But considering the option...

J