Tips sought - dancing in time

[Rougeforever]

Morning all.

So, I'm now in the process of being bitten by the Ceroc bug.

I've been 8 times, and this week will mark my first week dancing twice a week.

I'm keen to improve on my rather inelegant stomping around the dance floor.

Does anyone have any handy hints on learning to dance the steps in time to music ? The beat often eludes me.

I'm at the point now where I'm relaxing a bit in dancing, and therefore realising that I'm missing the beat of the song

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
I've been 8 times, and this week will mark my first week dancing twice a week.

Hurrah !!! Great to see that the early difficulties haven't put you off

Does anyone have any handy hints on learning to dance the steps in time to music ? The beat often eludes me.

I'm at the point now where I'm relaxing a bit in dancing, and therefore realising that I'm missing the beat of the song

Well, firstly, realising that you're off the beat is more than half the battle.

In my experience with beginners, the most common reasons for ladies being off the beat are:

- the guy being off the beat. Beginner guys have tons more work to do in the early stages than beginner girls, since they have to remember the moves, choose which one to dance next, know how to lead them. So the rhythm tends to suffer in the early stages while they're still struggling to execute the moves. And if the guy is leading off the beat, it will be virtually impossible for the girl to be on it.

- rushing things. Almost always, the girls have more time to execute a move than they think they have, and many have a tendency to take a lead as a cue to jump into the move too quickly.

- not putting their weight on the foot you step back on, and so darting forward again too quickly. The step back at the beginning and end of moves should take a whole count, and shouldn't be missed out, else you'll get ahead of yourself again.


Aim to take an actual step on each count of the move, and arrive on that step, with weight on the foot you've stepped with, on the beat. This means that you'll have to start the step before the actual beat in order to arrive on it, but if you can walk in time to music, you will be able to learn how to do this in time.

Practise walking to music of different speeds, particularly music that's slower than your normal walking pace. This will give you practice at carrying your weight smoothly from one step to the next, and arriving on each foot at the same time as the beat does.

Practise spinning to music. One way to do this is as follows:

Step back left foot.
Step forward left foot.
Spin one turn to the left on the left foot, finishing feet together.
Repeat.

To the right it's:

Step back right foot.
Step forward right foot.
Spin one turn to the right on the right foot, finishing feet together.
Repeat.

The step back, the step forward, and the spin should take one count each. Don't rush. Keep the foot you're not spinning on as close to the floor as possible, use it as a brake, and transfer your weight on to it at the end of the spin. Slowish music is easier and gives you more control.

Hope this helps. Keep posting !!

Chris

[Franck]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Does anyone have any handy hints on learning to dance the steps in time to music ? The beat often eludes me.

I'm at the point now where I'm relaxing a bit in dancing, and therefore realising that I'm missing the beat of the song

Dancing to the beat, is one of the hardest thing to 'learn'
The good thing is that you have noticed something was wrong which means that you, at least, get the beat.
The first thing to do is identify the (possibly several) reasons why you might be off beat.

1- is the song you're dancing to a bit too challenging? There are many modern (esp. R&B) or Latin songs where the beat is harder to find / keep. Is the music too fast / too slow... find your sweet spot and practise...

2- Do you find you struggle more with some men than with others? As you're meant to follow, you might not have a choice, and if your partner is dancing off beat, you might become frustrated. Pick a good man, and practise with them, asking for feedback.

3- If you've eliminated both of the above, then, as a follower, the problem might come from the wrong tension / elasticity in your arms, which means that your body is not (properly) connected to your arm. Typically, there might be a delay between your partner leading you in a direction (ie pulling / pushing your hand) and your body starting to travel.
You want to establish a more constant connection to diminish the delay (make sure you don't get too stiff though ).
You will also need to take full responsibility for your movement, make sure you keep your weight on the ball of your feet, and move your feet more, taking smaller steps - the larger the steps, the more time you need to get back, which can be a problem in fast songs...

The above is all general advice as I haven't (yet) had the pleasure of a dance... The best thing to do is to ask your teacher for some specific feedback or come up to the next party in Scotland

[DavidB]

Chris & Franck have already explained some of the causes for dancing off-time. All I can add is an explanation of what exactly off-time and on-time mean.

(This might be way too technical - apologies in advance.)

When most people count music, they would count '1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8'. They count every beat of the music.

In Modern Jive teachers and dancers count the movements, not the beats. Each movement takes 2 beats.

eg A first move (step back on 1, step in on 2, twist the lady out on 3, twist her back on 4, rutn the lady on 5, step back on 6,return her on 7, step back on 8) actually takes 16 counts of music.

So if a movement takes 2 beats, you have to choose which beat you start (or finish) on. One of the beats is correct (on-time) and the other is wrong (off-time).

It is easier to think about the beat you finish a movement on - ie if you step back, then the beat you have finished your step back on. The correct musical beats to finish movements on in Modern Jive are the odd beats (ie the 1, 3, 5 and 7)


So how do you know which are the odd beats and which are the even beats? In most modern music, the beat is usually played on the drums. The odd beats are usually on the bass drum, which gives it a deeper and longer sound. The even beats are usually played on a snare, or cymbal, which gives it a higher pitched and sharper sound.

You can also count the music from the beginning of a verse or chorus. The music we dance to is always phrased with 4 or 6 sets of 8 counts per verse/chorus. There is usually some emphasis throughout the music (the percussion, the instruments and the vocals) when a new verse and particularly a chorus starts. If I think I'm dancing off-time, then this is the way I check.


David

[Rougeforever]

Thanks for these tips !

Real practical stuff I can start doing

(I'm already doing the standing one one leg thing that was recommended in another thread !)

I'll let you know how I get on.

[spindr]

Or just cheat like the rest of us!

Listen to as much danceable music as you can -- and maybe count / clap along (unless you're driving ) -- it's so much easier to pick up the beat or timing if you've listened to the track before (let alone hit a break).

SpinDr.

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by spindr

Listen to as much danceable music as you can -- and maybe count / clap along (unless you're driving )

I've been doing that a bit. I can clap in time, and if Ceroc was all in the clapping I'd be entering competitions by now !

Sadly at my venue they insist you *dance* too

There are loads of songs I *only* associate with Ceroc now, though.

[Gadget]

What I used to do was try, during a class, to predict where the teacher would come in on the "5..6..7..8" when a move was done to music.
{Lorna was/is a music teacher, so I guess this helped a bit}

but the general "listen to the music" advice is what I would follow.

The other thing mentioned was turning on one beat - so many beginner ladies turn too fast and either feel aquard as there is a 'half beat' of doing nothing, or throw the man off his beat: Try and turn in 90 degree segments to start with, then a full 180, then a slow 180 (taking two beats)

[Emma]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
(I'm already doing the standing one one leg thing that was recommended in another thread !)

Bear in mind you *can* put your leg down sometimes ...makes walking so much easier!!

Anyway, I look forward to mistaking you for a stork next time I see you ...welcome to the cult

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by Emma
:...welcome to the cult

Yeah, this is *all* your fault Miss Emma. Don't think I've forgotten that. I'm sure there'll be punishment.

[jivecat]

[i]Originally posted by Rougeforever. I've been 8 times, and this week will mark my first week dancing twice a week.

Sounds like a slippery slope to me. Where will it all end?

[jiveoholic]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Does anyone have any handy hints on learning to dance the steps in time to music ? The beat often eludes me.
[/b]

I'm sure I am going to get into trouble here...but here goes anyway - its the truth whether some want to admit it or not....

I and others have found that there are some 'dimensionally challenged' ladies who act like human metronomes, ie it is impossible to not dance to the rhythm without dislocating your arms. Of course one could always let go!

I am serious! Loosing the rhythm is often simply because the move is being performed in a stumbly sort of way, with uneven timing between the steps because it has been learned wrongly or is not performed yet to much confidence. Dancing with a human gyroscope forces you to keep the beat. I'm sure it works for both sexes.

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by jivecat
Sounds like a slippery slope to me. Where will it all end?

Yes. You're right.

Danced for the second time last night, and am signed up for a Cerocshop on Sunday.

I'm rather hoping it will end with me being able to dance competently

Ooh - a Midlands person - where do you normally dance ?:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
and am signed up for a Cerocshop on Sunday.

I'm rather hoping it will end with me being able to dance competently

This is a really good plan. Cerocshops are absolutely great for recent beginners. You'll be exhausted at the end, but the intensity is brilliant for imprinting the learning.

I went to three Ceroc classes and no freestyle in the first year and a half of my MJ lifetime.

The first was a normal one, and I was so hopeless that I didn't go back. The second one was a Cerocshop (I was dragged to it) about six months later - I enjoyed it but still couldn't freestyle.

Then the 3rd one was another Cerocshop about six months after the first one. During this one, it clicked, and I started going to weekly classes. Then the obsession started to develop - but how much time did I waste in discouragement???

I so know how bad it can feel in the early days... now you know why I try and get people not to give up in those first few weeks.

But the workshop should be great. Make sure you take your bloke along too, though...

Chris

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Yes. You're right.

Danced for the second time last night, and am signed up for a Cerocshop on Sunday.

If you're really keen you could try the freestyle at Rugby tomorrow night... (probably not too far from Solihull.)

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by DavidY
If you're really keen you could try the freestyle at Rugby tomorrow night... (probably not too far from Solihull.)

Not done a freestyle yet. I still cling to the safety of the beginners class and review session

Won't be long 'till I start though - and you're right - Rugby isn't far.

That's one of the great things about living in the Midlands (and near the M42, M5 and M6 - nothing is too far (Even Scotland !)

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Not done a freestyle yet. I still cling to the safety of the beginners class and review session

Rugby is a new venue, so I'm not certain what this particular one will be like, but generally weekend freestyles often get some of the better dancers from further afield than the average class night and are a lot of fun. I believe Rugby will still have "beginners" & "fun" classes tomorrow (but probably no review session or taxi dancers).

Won't be long 'till I start though - and you're right - Rugby isn't far.

That's one of the great things about living in the Midlands (and near the M42, M5 and M6 - nothing is too far (Even Scotland !)

Absolutely! I've driven to Scotland to dance a couple of times last year and fully intend to do so again this year.

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally posted by DavidY
Absolutely! I've driven to Scotland to dance a couple of times last year and fully intend to do so again this year.

Hurrah!!!!! Beach Ballroom - May 22/23

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Not done a freestyle yet. I still cling to the safety of the beginners class and review session

Well it is time to start hassling the taxi dancers (and anyone else who looks like they know what they're doing) during the freestyle.

No arguments please !!

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Well it is time to start hassling the taxi dancers (and anyone else who looks like they know what they're doing) during the freestyle.

No arguments please !!

Heh, if you've read my journal you'll know that I already hassle taxi-dancers
I know I have to start asking more men to dance - but at the moment I've only been asking my fellow beginners. I'll get onto it.
Honestly I will. It's just that some of them are just so *good* !

I'm usually open-mouthed with awe!