Beginners - How do we keep them ???

[Zuhal]

Slightly off thread perhaps... Someone called Katie described (in another thread) how she had cultivated a whole cohort of dancers by spending some time teaching within a school.

Long term investment for the Organisers but ......

Seems like a good idea.

My teenagers love MJ, eventhough they have to go with boring old Dad.

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Lory

For me, it was seeing dancers I could aspire too, I was really entertained (and still love to watch) and of course a friendly atmosphere!

So my suggestion to the franchise owners, is, look after your better long standing regular dancers, reward the ones who are consistently friendly and welcoming to newbies, keep them coming and the newbies will hopefully keep coming back too. Maybe ask a couple of the new people to say who 'made' their evening for them. Then take the time to thank that person personally and maybe give the odd free pass out occasionally as a sign of appreciation?

If, the first time I attended, there were mainly 'under average' dancers, I may well have thought 'is that it?'

But seeing the teachers and some of the best dancers dance together, really fired me up, then actually getting the chance to dance with some of them, was great!

I know lot's of people, who aren't taxi dancers and who wouldn't want to be but they still contribute greatly to making a good atmosphere! You know the ones I mean, the ones, when they walk through the door, at least 5 peoples faces light up!

For most people being valued is reward enough in itself. A financial inducement to return is not necessary. I know a non-Ceroc venue that paid a draw partnership to come, which led to envy from other, slightly lesser draw people, who gave up coming, or commited other adverse acts. The venue lost a lot of headway.

[TheTramp]

Originally Posted by cerocmetro

Just tell them "JMV03SA"

Just in case you didn't get it...

Jive Master Videos 03 Still Available

Trampy

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by TheTramp

Just in case you didn't get it...

Jive Master Videos 03 Still Available

Trampy

I think this calls for a poll. Did anyone not know that the Video is 'still available'?

[Gary]

What kept me going was the challenge. On those rare occasions when I got a move to work, it felt really good, and I could see some other good dancers and was inspired.

The beginner revision classes (while everyone else was doing the intermediate class) were crucial as well.

Generally the girls didn't seem that friendly (maybe because I had my teeth gritted with furious concentration a lot of the time), but there were a few girls who were encouraging which also helped a lot.

I almost gave up on modern jive early on after a few classes at Woolloomoolloo where some of the girls made it very obvious that they didn't enjoy dancing with a beginner or very new intermediate , or even just being rotated to me in class. I'm glad I stuck with it, though.

[Nick M]

Originally Posted by Gary

I almost gave up on modern jive early on after a few classes at Woolloomoolloo where some of the girls made it very obvious that they didn't enjoy dancing with a beginner or very new intermediate.

That was true for me too - once or twice as a raw beginner I plucked up courage to ask more experienced ladies to dance in freestyle, and their faces visibly fell as soon as we started to dance. The way they hurried off the floor afterwards spoke volumes, and it was very dispiriting. Enough to send me straight home sometimes, with confidence at rock bottom.

Ever since then I have tried to request dances from beginner ladies, and to do so generously. Encouragement is important

[Gus]

Originally Posted by Gary

I almost gave up on modern jive early on after a few classes at Woolloomoolloo where some of the girls made it very obvious that they didn't enjoy dancing with a beginner or very new intermediate , or even just being rotated to me in class. I'm glad I stuck with it, though.

Hey ... think thats bad ... try dancing in LONDON!! I DID give it up .... despite the fact that my mate who got me going was a Ceroc DJ Never saw a Taxi dancer (too busy showboating), and if you couldn't dance the lasses just weren't interested. Luckily I gave it another go when I moved up to Peterborough/Nottingham and the rest is history (all praise to Ceroc Central ).

Seriously, I think things have improved (I started at the famous Central Club in 1996) ... but I still find a real attitude problem at some of the Southern clubs ... makes me wonder how they keep any beginners at all.

[TheTramp]

I started in London, and only ever had a problem at the Casbah....

Went there after I'd been dancing 2 weeks, and it wasn't that they wouldn't dance with me. I was just too scared to ask most of the people who went there, the standard was so high.

It's changed a lot now though - went there recently, and was amazed at how comparatively low the standard was. Though, I did get turned down by one of the women that (thought she) was one of the better dancers, who I didn't know....

Trampy

[Lory]

Originally Posted by TheTramp

Though, I did get turned down by one of the women that (thought she) was one of the better dancers, who I didn't know....

Trampy

There's someone who the Tramp doesn't know

[TheTramp]

There's lots of people I don't know. Probably

Trampy

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by TheTramp

Though, I did get turned down by one of the women that (thought she) was one of the better dancers, who I didn't know....

Trampy

I think that this demonstrates how hurtful a refusal is. The Tramp must have felt it quite strongly as he still remembers it and mentions it here too.

Some time ago a few of us turned it into a game.

1 point for a refusal.
4 points for a walk-off in the first quartile of a track
3 points for a walk-off in the second quartile of a track
2 points for a walk-off in the third quartile of a track
1 point for a walk-off in the fourth quartile

When I get a refusal it still hurts - but inside I'm thinking that at least I'm improved my score I haven't had a walk-off for months either

However, I prefer a refusal to the grudging acceptance and bored look for a whole track - maybe I should start walking off

When I started in Brighton in '97 there were 2 nights run by Graham LeClerc in the same venue. The Monday was friendly and us beginners were welcomed, danced with and chatted to down the pub. The Tuesday night was packed with people who were so cool they didn't dance much, didn't do the lesson, wore black, were very cliquey, and looked you up and down when you asked them to dance and then said no. Needless to say, Monday was the night I danced

The above is ancient history: Graham doesn't run either night now.

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by TheTramp

There's lots of people I don't know. Probably

Trampy

But is there anyone who doesn't know you

[Lory]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

For most people being valued is reward enough in itself.

I agree! And the point I made was to TELL the people they are valued! THAT costs nothing!

I know a non-Ceroc venue that paid a draw partnership to come, which led to envy from other, slightly lesser draw people, who gave up coming, or commited other adverse acts. The venue lost a lot of headway

I'm not quite sure I understand how this worked or was run? But I'm sure it wasn't what I was talking about!

What I meant was something unofficial, not something that was advertised or even talked about, it was only a suggestion as a way of someone saying 'cheers mate, we're really glad to have you here!'

Obviously you will always get people who, who just want to try other venues, meet and dance with new people but if there was a kind of loyalty and sense of belonging built up, I'm sure more people would return on a regular basis! Even bring some others back with them!

[Gus]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

I know a non-Ceroc venue that paid a draw partnership to come, which led to envy from other, slightly lesser draw people, who gave up coming, or commited other adverse acts. The venue lost a lot of headway.

Not sure if its what you are saying but previously I've given guest invites to a number of 'star' dancers to get them into the habit of coming to my freestyles. They liked the compliment and came, raised the standard ... and when the guest invites ran out they kept on coming. Everybody benfitted for litle cost

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Lory

What I meant was something unofficial, not something that was advertised or even talked about, it was only a suggestion as a way of someone saying 'cheers mate, we're really glad to have you here!'

I think, in nearly all cases, people pick up the vibe that they are welcome and valued. There are always a few, however, with low self image who need explicit reassurance, and, I think we agree, praise is seldom wasted.

Originally Posted by Lory

Obviously you will always get people who, who just want to try other venues, meet and dance with new people but if there was a kind of loyalty and sense of belonging built up, I'm sure more people would return on a regular basis! Even bring some others back with them!

I love trying new venues and meeting new people. However it has just dawned on me that Gus's question about whether a super venue could work outside London has already been answered to my satisfaction by my home venue. I do wish I could cherry pick a few partners from surrounding venues, but I find I would be missing too much here to go anywhere else. Hopefully I am helping to propogate that feeling of belonging to the beginners here.

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Gus

Not sure if its what you are saying but previously I've given guest invites to a number of 'star' dancers to get them into the habit of coming to my freestyles. They liked the compliment and came, raised the standard ... and when the guest invites ran out they kept on coming. Everybody benfitted for litle cost

That was my theory too, that there are star / "magnetic" dancers, who draw others in. I suggested identifying them and rewarding them to Ceroc, which was rejected.

In this case of the competitor that tried it, those that knew they were also star-magnets, but were not getting the same treatment, felt very miffed. Our Ceroc venue benefited from that mistake.

[Gus]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

I love trying new venues and meeting new people. However it has just dawned on me that Gus's question about whether a super venue could work outside London has already been answered to my satisfaction by my home venue. .

WHERE??? Back in 1996 the club of choice was Northampton ... but that declined. In 99 it was the turn of Marcus Garvey ... but that too slid into mediocrity. BUT, even then I wouldn’t have judged those clubs as 'Super-Clubs'. If there is one ... I'd love to get my sorry butt down there

.

[Emma]

Originally Posted by Rachel

While most clubs have a number of great dancers who you could just watch and be awed by, more often than not, the beginner will just see other beginners dancing, or the good dancers taxiing and trying to help the newer people along. (Which is obviously good.) But that WOW! factor is not always so evident. When we start, it's not as if we've been able to watch MJ on tv, is it, and know what can be done with these little beginner moves that we're desperately trying to string together!

Just found this in the 'Racial Representation' thread. I think it's interesting in the light of the fact that the demonstration at the beginner's lesson has recently been axed... Personally though I found it hard to *believe* that I would be able to do those moves when I started out, it still spurred me on to try because I *wanted* to be able to do them. Current educational theory (fwiw) states that you need to show or tell pupils what they are about to learn, and that it helps them to know what they are aiming at. I can't help feeling that losing the demonstration takes away the 'you know what you're getting' factor.