Dancing as a man

[Trish]

Originally Posted by Tellina

I have recently started to learn to lead, for the reasons stated in this thread (lack of men at dances, to improve my dancing as a follow, for the challenge etc.) and I have a question for the ladies who can dance the lead: Do you change anything else about your dancing other than the arm movements? What I mean is, do you feel that you have a different tension in your arms / different frame / different style etc. when you dance "as a man"? Also, for those of you who always do a back-step with the right foot when following, is it better to step back on the left when leading or to stay with the reflex of the right foot?

Any other advice for someone who is starting out on the lead road? (I am comfortable following and I agree with what has been said so far about not learning the other role too early.)

Thanks!

Lily

I don't think I change much as far as tension etc goes, but to some extent you have to adapt to the person you're leading, and maybe be a bit firmer if they are also strong (with some nervous beginners it's like dragging them through treacle!) The alternative to this is not to be so strong, but to let them go where they want and make a move out of that, but this is probably not the easiest thing to try when you've only just started and have a limited repertoire. You might find you have to alter your tension a bit if you tend to be a bit on the spaghetti side of things, but I'm sure you've probably got the right tension anyway.

It depends a bit on what your style was in the first place. In the unlikely event that anyone on this forum suffers from bouncy hands, I'd say that doesn't really help you lead. I was also told at one point that I didn't look very masculine! So when I started for a while I tried not to do so many step and not to put my spare arm out - but then I thought, no, I'm doing this for my own enjoyment and not to teach or anything, so why shouldn't I look feminine?! This business of being less feminine seems to be a big thing if you're thinking of teaching though, as I guess they don't want to produce a load of effeminate male leads!

You may need to step back on the left for certain moves - I find this is generally the case with a first move, and I think it's usually taught that way in our area anyway. Steping back with the right is better for a basket/octopus type move. I'd say watch what your teacher does in the beginner lesson and follow that. The main thing is to make sure you step in for a turn and then back again afterwards - sounds obvious but when you're thinking of a lot of other things it's easy to miss!

The two things I found helpful were to think of the moves as a load of new moves, different to the ladies moves, and to concentrate hard on remembering which hand each move begins on, which stops you getting so confused.

Hope that helps - bit of a long one I'm afraid!

Trish

[Piglet]

Hey need to share!

I've just done my first night of a lead in a beginner's class and really enjoyed it. I did half of a class last night cos the moves were the arm jive swizzle, in and out and octopus to start with and I knew I could lead those (well - was quite confident). It really makes me think, but I'm enjoying the challenge. Not ready for freestyle at all yet - give me another 16 months to get my head around that idea

[JoC]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Not ready for freestyle at all yet - give me another 16 months to get my head around that idea

No need to wait that long!!! Lots of man spins or shoulder slides, that's the ticket!!! Fancy a dance sometime?

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Hey need to share!

I've just done my first night of a lead in a beginner's class and really enjoyed it.

Cool.

Tonight I had to fight off a girl who was determined to lead me through as many windmills as possible.

Wouldn't have been so bad, but I was meant to be leading that dance!

Still want to try a beginner's class or two as a follower to see what it's like. Need to see if I can think of any sympathetic lady leaders...

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by JoC

No need to wait that long!!! Lots of man spins or shoulder slides, that's the ticket!!! Fancy a dance sometime?

You are on Jo !

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Still want to try a beginner's class or two as a follower to see what it's like. Need to see if I can think of any sympathetic lady leaders...

I'm sure there are lots of ladies at your normal classes that will help, but if you ever want to come up to Aberdeen...

Mind you, I'm staying away from the freestyle leading until after the competition!

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Piglet

I'm sure there are lots of ladies at your normal classes that will help, but if you ever want to come up to Aberdeen...

Mind you, I'm staying away from the freestyle leading until after the competition!

Funny you should say that...

I'm planning a wee tour round Scotland the week after Musselburgh... When's a good day to be in Aberdeen anyway?

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by ducasi

When's a good day to be in Aberdeen anyway?

Tuesday night and Wednesday night are my favourites - possibly a bit more room on Tuesdays because its not in the centre of Aberdeen. Thursday is a tiny venue - nice if you like dancing in the dark, but to be honest - the calibre of dancers can be much poorer that night. It would be good to see you though so be sure to let me know when you're coming

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally Posted by Tellina

I have recently started to learn to lead, for the reasons stated in this thread (lack of men at dances, to improve my dancing as a follow, for the challenge etc.) and I have a question for the ladies who can dance the lead: Do you change anything else about your dancing other than the arm movements? What I mean is, do you feel that you have a different tension in your arms / different frame / different style etc. when you dance "as a man"? Also, for those of you who always do a back-step with the right foot when following, is it better to step back on the left when leading or to stay with the reflex of the right foot?

Any other advice for someone who is starting out on the lead road? (I am comfortable following and I agree with what has been said so far about not learning the other role too early.)

Thanks! Lily

I had to think about that one for a bit as I just tend to chop and change from dancing the lead to following. I think I have more tension in my arms as I need to lead the lady where I want her. Frame I really don't know about that one. Ans style I feel comes with each individual person I dance with, I tend to go with the guys style when following, but I suppose I must have my own style when I have the lead.
The only advise I can give is keep with it, do the lessons and it will all come together nicely.

[Nessa]

Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil

......Frame I really don't know about that one. And style I feel comes with each individual person I dance with, I tend to go with the guys style when following, but I suppose I must have my own style when I have the lead.
The only advice I can give is keep with it, do the lessons and it will all come together nicely.

I know that I tend to adapt my leading style to the girl-partner's style, as I figure they've got a lot more experience with the style thing than one of us newish she-males out there! It certainly adds to my repotoire of style moves for use when I switch roles again.


For me one of the funniest things about trying to lead is that, well, some guy leads a move on me and I think, excellent, that looks good, that'd be fun to learn to lead (for example) for a Battle of the Sexes comp. So I try it out on one of my unsuspecting friends and suddenly realise - oh dear, I've just done something that locks us in a physically intimate position. Or as one lady put it - "gosh, look at us, dancing boob to boob." VERY embarrassing when not planned... kinda funny if I was trying to shock one of my good friends.

And a BLOODY cunning plan when trawling for BOTS partners - before the CMJ comps in Sydney last June I had 4 girls ask me to dance with them - sadly, we didn't have time for BOTS in that comp

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere in this rather lengthy thread - but it seems that girls dancing lead isn't likely to raise too many eyebrows in your fair Isles? It's just that in a few short weeks I'm heading to the UK for my first ever visit - and I'd hate to give y'all the wrong idea about what us Aussie girl Ceroccers do in our spare time ...

[Tellina]

Originally Posted by Trish

I don't think I change much as far as tension etc goes, but to some extent you have to adapt to the person you're leading, and maybe be a bit firmer if they are also strong (with some nervous beginners it's like dragging them through treacle!) The alternative to this is not to be so strong, but to let them go where they want and make a move out of that, but this is probably not the easiest thing to try when you've only just started and have a limited repertoire. You might find you have to alter your tension a bit if you tend to be a bit on the spaghetti side of things, but I'm sure you've probably got the right tension anyway.

It depends a bit on what your style was in the first place. In the unlikely event that anyone on this forum suffers from bouncy hands, I'd say that doesn't really help you lead. I was also told at one point that I didn't look very masculine! So when I started for a while I tried not to do so many step and not to put my spare arm out - but then I thought, no, I'm doing this for my own enjoyment and not to teach or anything, so why shouldn't I look feminine?! This business of being less feminine seems to be a big thing if you're thinking of teaching though, as I guess they don't want to produce a load of effeminate male leads!

You may need to step back on the left for certain moves - I find this is generally the case with a first move, and I think it's usually taught that way in our area anyway. Steping back with the right is better for a basket/octopus type move. I'd say watch what your teacher does in the beginner lesson and follow that. The main thing is to make sure you step in for a turn and then back again afterwards - sounds obvious but when you're thinking of a lot of other things it's easy to miss!

The two things I found helpful were to think of the moves as a load of new moves, different to the ladies moves, and to concentrate hard on remembering which hand each move begins on, which stops you getting so confused.

Hope that helps - bit of a long one I'm afraid!

Trish

Thanks Trish! It does help. I certainly don't suffer from Spaghetti arms (if anything, it's the opposite!) but I did notice that if the lady decides to do a move on her own, there's little point in trying to stop her! I've only done a few moves so far so I can't really turn one move into another, but I just try and start leading again as soon as she's finished the move she was doing

That's a good point you make about being feminine or masculine when dancing the lead. I hadn't thought about the difference between freestyling where a lead can dance in any way and teaching the lead where it may indeed be better to adopt a more masculine style. As I'd love to be able to teach MJ one day (if I get good enough...) it's definitely something for me to keep in mind!

As far as stepping back and copying the teacher goes, it's a bit biased because our teacher has done a lot of Swing and so he always steps back on his left foot. Also, I am taking Swing classes as a lead so I step back on my left foot there too. I think I'll continue with that style as it actually easier now for me, thanks to muscle memory, to step back on my left foot that to tell myself ity's ok, I can step back on either foot!

I agree that the moves seem to be completely different when I'm leading them as to when I'm following. Actually, it almost seems like a competely new dance. I feel like I'm starting all over again with a new dance but it's really motivating because progress is so much faster!

Thanks again for the advice

[Tellina]

Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil

I had to think about that one for a bit as I just tend to chop and change from dancing the lead to following. I think I have more tension in my arms as I need to lead the lady where I want her. Frame I really don't know about that one. Ans style I feel comes with each individual person I dance with, I tend to go with the guys style when following, but I suppose I must have my own style when I have the lead.
The only advise I can give is keep with it, do the lessons and it will all come together nicely.

Thanks. I definitely intend to keep learning the lead because I'm surprised at how much fun it is (although I have to admit that it feels so good to return to following!) I wish we had more frequent classes here though as the only way I can get more practice is by taking Swing classes as a lead.

[Lynn]

I've been doing the lead in classes recently, mainly to make up numbers as extra women but also to learn to lead to help my taxi-ing. I had only led a few dances in freestyle though so had a go last night. Its all been beginner ladies and I'm doing all the 'panic can't think of a move, throw an easy one in' (in my case seems to be the man spin) - its good to know what its like for the guys.

Last night there was a visiting Scottish dancer and I asked her up as she didn't know anyone, explaining that I was a beginner lead. And she actually followed what I led. It was a very different experience from dancing with a beginner lady who follows the move she thinks you are doing, rather than the lead you are doing. If someone follows what you actually lead then you can see where you are going wrong in the lead.

I know, I know all the guys know this of course but it was very enlightening for me. Another one of those things I knew in theory but had an impact when I experienced it.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Lynn

I've been doing the lead in classes recently, mainly to make up numbers as extra women but also to learn to lead to help my taxi-ing. I had only led a few dances in freestyle though so had a go last night. Its all been beginner ladies and I'm doing all the 'panic can't think of a move, throw an easy one in' (in my case seems to be the man spin) - its good to know what its like for the guys.

Last night there was a visiting Scottish dancer and I asked her up as she didn't know anyone, explaining that I was a beginner lead. And she actually followed what I led. It was a very different experience from dancing with a beginner lady who follows the move she thinks you are doing, rather than the lead you are doing. If someone follows what you actually lead then you can see where you are going wrong in the lead.

I know, I know all the guys know this of course but it was very enlightening for me. Another one of those things I knew in theory but had an impact when I experienced it.

Well Done Lynn. It sounds as if your doing great. I have also just started dancing the lead in the beginners classes. Aberdeen has a habbit of having far too many women!!! <Looks around for some hot tasty young men and is sorely disapointed!!!>

I'm just doing the occasional class especially if I know the moves well. Tonight there were far far too many women in the refresher class so as I know the taxi-dancers quite well I offered to help out as a man. At the end of the night I was asked to help out at the beginner's workshop this weekend AS A MAN!!!! EEEEEEEEK I'm nervous but should be great!

I now have so so so much respect for the males - HAven't quite worked up the guts to dance freestyle yet!

Just thought I'd share!

Freya
xXx

[Frankie_4711]

I've been dancing the beginner classes as a man for longer than I did as a woman!! (basically because of the uneven numbers, I feel it's only fair to reduce the female numbers by 2!) I do prefer to be the woman, but hey, can't always have what you want, can you? And I do take the opportunity to swap back if there aren't that many women in the queue!

The hardest thing was trying to freestyle - "OMG, can't think of a right-handed move ... argh!!" But it came with time and I have no problem freestyling as a man now ...

Except ... I'm totally bored with only being able to do the beginner moves, but as I've only been dancing for just over a year, don't feel that I'm good enough yet as a woman to forfeit the intermediate class and do it as a man.

I did some taxi-ing for some semi-private lessons a while ago, where everyone had had at most a few hours of lessons, and as they were short on men I did the honours. Problem was, because they were being taught for one specific event, rather than getting all the beginner moves in first, then moving on, the teacher decided to do a mix of beginner and intermediate moves, so I was learning at the same time as trying to help these poor people learn! And not only did he do that, but decided that one of these moves was going to be a lift! Yeah, right - didn't actually manage that one, I'm afraid. At least I have got one or two intermediate moves under my belt now, though (not used any of them in freestyle yet ... don't exactly jump to the front of my mind when I'm desperately scrabbling around for the next move!)

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Frankie_4711

but decided that one of these moves was going to be a lift! Yeah, right - didn't actually manage that one, I'm afraid.

Yikes!!

Sounds scary!! <Knees Quibble>

Freya
xXx

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by Freya

Looks around for some hot tasty young men

Does scoring one out of the four options count?

Dave

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Dave T

Does scoring one out of the four options count?

Dave

Love ya hun!

XXXXXXXXX

[Genie]

Freya! There are pleanty of tasty young men in Aberdeen.

Just not many who can dance...

[Freya]

You know me I'm Fussy!!! (Maybe thats an understatement!)

Freya xXx