Style

[Whitebeard]

What is style ?

Is style innate (you've either got it or you ain't) ?

How, and to what extent, can it be learnt ?

How can we assess style in ourselves ?

I've started this thread in the Beginners' Corner as I feel it is never too soon to realise the importance of developing an appealing personal style. Far more important than accumulating a large collection of moves.

[baldrick]

Originally Posted by Whitebeard

What is style ?

Is style innate (you've either got it or you ain't) ?

How, and to what extent, can it be learnt ?

How can we assess style in ourselves ?

I've started this thread in the Beginners' Corner as I feel it is never too soon to realise the importance of developing an appealing personal style. Far more important than accumulating a large collection of moves.

Style is how you do it. Some people will like it , some people won't. You can adapt it, you can copy others. But its yours. If your lucky lots of people like what you do straight off, otherwise (and more likely) you'll have to work at it for a bit.
Try watching different dancers. I started (and watched) just after a couple of guys. They dance different to me and each other but both have style. Same as with moves, see what you like, try it and if its comfy for you and your partners stick with it. Otherwise bin it.
Any help?

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by Whitebeard

What is style ?

it's how you perform the moves and what you do in the bits between the moves.

Is style innate (you've either got it or you ain't) ?

Some is, most isn't. Most "stylish" ladies have had classical training, and it shows in their hand/arm movements. Most men's style is related to confidence.

How, and to what extent, can it be learnt ?

There are some "Style" workshops, and the "Ceroc Intermediate" workshops soend some time focusing on style elements.
I think that a lot of stlye comes from understanding 'lines', symmetry, synchronisity and how to form them: a good example is the lean from the cattapult -
- Good clean lines would be if there was a straight line through your skull, down your spine and into the floor between your feet (or down your leg to your heel if you do it that way)
- Symmetry would be acheived if the lady matched your feet and angle of lean.
- Synchronisity is both starting the lean at the same time, at the same speed and coming back from it in time.

How can we assess style in ourselves ?

You can't. Unless you video yourself. What you may think of as "styleish", may appear to be "flailing" to others {} What you pass off as "well, that's just how I do it :shrug:" may appear styleish to others.

I've started this thread in the Beginners' Corner as I feel it is never too soon to realise the importance of developing an appealing personal style. Far more important than accumulating a large collection of moves.

just be carefull that 'style' does not over-rule clarity or leadability. You have to learn how to do things properly before embellishing them.

[whistler]

I think everyone has their your own style to a certain extent that comes naturally and maybe that improves with practice......but what I cant seem to grasp is the filler in bits...I am hoping that can be taught in the workshops cos I dont have a clue!!

[CJ]

"Style" actually comes from the French for pen: stylo.

The idea is that those with style are tall and rigid, and dance in a very pointy fashion: a good strong lead with little or no verbal communication.

It was one of the first dictats when "Ceroc" was started in France.

[baldrick]

Originally Posted by Ceroc Jock

"Style" actually comes from the Frencxh for pen: stylo.

The idea is that those with style are tall and rigid, and dance in a very pointy fashion: a good strong lead with little or no verbal communication.

Thats me stuffed then. No style here.

[Yogi_Bear]

'I think that a lot of stlye comes from understanding 'lines', symmetry, synchronisity and how to form them: a good example is the lean from the cattapult'

The catapault - not easily susceptible to 'style', I fancy...

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by Yogi_Bear

The catapault - not easily susceptible to 'style', I fancy...

not easily, no, but it is susceptable to bad style, and it's the first example that poped into my head where everyone would know it and the concepts are simple to show. (There are so many variations to the 'first move' and 'man-spin' that any styling may be mistaken for another move - or perhaps that's just me )

[Sheepman]

Not surprisingly we have previously discussed this, probably the most helpful is Ceroc style vs technique vs moves (well it was started by the Oracle) but there are others including -
style
Competition dance style
moves v style

Greg

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Whitebeard

I feel it is never too soon to realise the importance of developing an appealing personal style.

For beginners I'd have thought it more important to concentrate on basic moves & technique, and avoid crushing any innate style already present. If someone ignored style for the first few months of dancing, would it do them any harm?

[RobC]

Your own personal style is something that develops over time. The form that it takes can be influenced by many factors, but as a newcomer to MJ, the most notable influences are, IMHO, firstly if you have any prior dance experience, such as Ballroom. Latin, Salsa, Ballet, then this will show through immediately in your first steps into the world of MJ. If you are completely new to dancing, then your next biggest influence will be that of your teacher.

As beginners learn, they inevitable pick up and copy the style used by their teacher(s) - such is the nature of the demonstrate and copy method of teaching used in dancing. As they venture further afield and travel to more venues, experience more teachers, attend specific style workshops, and even just watching and being inspired by more advanced dancers, that style will develop and evolve, become more polished and unique as you incorporate elements from various places, sometimes changing into something completely different from where you started.

From a beginners perspective, I really don't think it is the right place to start worrying newcomers to dancing with extra information about how to make the moves look better. It is far more important to ensure that they learn, understand and put into practise the basics of dancing, that being the lead & follow techniques and the basic moves which are building blocks which can then be expanded on in intermediate classes/workshops without first having to un-learn bad habits picked up as a beginner.

[bigdjiver]

What I love about MJ is that it can be danced in so many styles, and I can watch and admire so many dancers, and do what I can to move (so slowly) towards being as good as them, without ever wanting to be just like them.

[Whitebeard]

Originally Posted by RobC

From a beginners perspective, I really don't think it is the right place to start worrying newcomers to dancing with extra information about how to make the moves look better. It is far more important to ensure that they learn, understand and put into practise the basics of dancing, that being the lead & follow techniques and the basic moves which are building blocks which can then be expanded on in intermediate classes/workshops without first having to un-learn bad habits picked up as a beginner.

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

For beginners I'd have thought it more important to concentrate on basic moves & technique, and avoid crushing any innate style already present. If someone ignored style for the first few months of dancing, would it do them any harm?.

Okay, although I still rate myself very much a beginner, I have got past the raw tyro stage and am comfortable with the basics of most beginner moves (even one or two of the new Classic moves). My feeling now is that I want to be able to dance these well, and hopefully with a pleasing style, rather than just start trying to collect more and more moves danced rather indifferently. Poor (if not downright bad) as well as good dancers can be seen in Freestyle and I don't want to stand out as one of the former.

If I bring any prior dance experience into MJ it will be ballroom - perhaps largish steps and some rise and fall. But that was a long time ago. I'm a bit concerned that, as Gadget has brought up, there might be too much movement and I might be seen to be bounding and flailing about a bit - I've no idea what the free arm might be doing most of the time. I have a feeling I'd hate videos of myself just as much as still photos.

I don't think one gets much in the way of style guidance from the teacher in the beginners' class (Nor, for that matter in the Intermediate class).The moves are very standardised and only now and then is the leader urged to emphasise a particular movement, give a firm lead at this point, strike a little 'attitude', show who's in charge, etc.

I suppose it just has to come from informed observation, practice and experience, attending workshops where available and, perhaps most importantly, gauging the reactions of the follower.

[Whitebeard]

Originally Posted by Gadget

...... and what you do in the bits between the moves.

What am I missing here? For me the moves are sequential and mostly delineated by the return and step back. Will I get to the stage where I can improvise and throw in a few wobblies? Or, miss out the return as I was reading on another thread.

Originally Posted by Yogi Bear

The catapault - not easily susceptible to 'style', I fancy...

Not so sure. There's a lovely 'bounce' there when it goes right, which must add to the style of the dance, and a nice flourish to send the lady spinning.

Originally Posted by Gadget

You have to learn how to do things properly before embellishing them.

Wasn't really thinking of embellishment - just doing the moves with some grace and style. The only time I can think of where I might consciously add anything is in the Yoyo where, as the right hand is taken from the left shoulder towards the ladies right hip, I take the left leg and arm out to the left in a compensating movement. Bringing them in again as we go palm to palm. This seems entirely natural and gives balance to the movement. I've seen others just standing there woodenly as if directing traffic. (I know about that from a very previous life.) I would see this as part of the flow of the move rather than an embellishment.

[MartinHarper]

what you do in the bits between the moves

I think I know what Gadget is talking about here. Try dancing to something really slow - whistle at 60bpm, or dance at half or quarter speed to something reasonable. This really exaggerates the gaps "between the moves". Or at least, it does for me. This is where you can put style.
Corrollary: until I find something stylish to do in these gaps, I'll find slow music uncomfortable to dance to.

gauging the reactions of the follower.

Hmm... if style is about how you look... the follower might not be the best judge: she'll often be facing in the wrong direction, or concentrating on not falling over. On the other hand, if the alternative is being videod or asking a friend... *gulp*

[Whitebeard]

Originally Posted by Me

..... towards the ladies right hip .....

Sorry, the arm movement is much more horizontal than that.

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by Whitebeard

What am I missing here? For me the moves are sequential and mostly delineated by the return and step back. Will I get to the stage where I can improvise and throw in a few wobblies? Or, miss out the return as I was reading on another thread.

"what to do in-between moves" - Moves should flow between points A-B-C-D...arriving and departing from each point on a beat or half beat. When you change the direction of flow, you are no longer moving through the beat, but stopping on it and going in a different direction. This is what I refer to as "in-between the moves" - you will see stylish ladies take advantage of these points with their spare arm while dancing.

Not so sure. There's a lovely 'bounce' there when it goes right, which must add to the style of the dance, and a nice flourish to send the lady spinning.

Just recently I found another "style" point that I put into the cattapult; when the lady is being drawn to my side to exit, my feet are together, parralel (I use the 'step forward' method). Now, while I draw the lady infront (before the spin) I side-step into the path she has just come from, finishing my movement as the hand extends infront of me again to spin her. This results in a smoother exit for the lady because she does not have to travel infront of me before rotating - she simply steps forward and spins.
Now, technicaly, I am not doing the move "right", but as long as I don't get the timing wrong and stick my foot out into the lady's path {} I think it's a more styleish exit.

asn't really thinking of embellishment - just doing the moves with some grace and style.

"Grace" I think comes from smoothness, for ladies it also comes from moving with a move and takeing that movement out to the tips of their fingers.
"Style" I think comes from timeing. Just knowing exactly where and when to catch that hand. Using a "natural" movement to intercept and divert at just the right time. Hitting the music just right. Matching the moves to the coincide with elements of the track being played. Style

Both I think are skills that can be learned. (well, I hope they are... )

[under par]

Originally Posted by Ceroc Jock

"Style" actually comes from the French for pen: stylo.

The idea is that those with style are tall and rigid, and dance in a very pointy fashion: a good strong lead with little or no verbal communication.

It was one of the first dictats when "Ceroc" was started in France.

I 'm 70% of that description (I think!) just need to stop talking

[Minnie M]

Originally Posted by Ceroc Jock

............ when "Ceroc" was started in France.