The yo-yo

[Gadget]

The Yo-Yo:

- Right to right
- Step in right side to right side, man's arm folded accross chest with hand at left shoulder
- Man's arm extends to the ladies far hip, pivoting her 180º to face in the same direction. Weight transfer for the man to his right foot, lady's left hand rests on man's near shoulder
- Right arm is taken up to a flat handed hold at shoulder height, takeing the lady another 90º with tension in the arms, while the man rotates *
- Arm is pushed down and away to send the lady into a free-spin

* at this point I have see two variations:
1) the man turning 90º to mirror the lady's pose, then turning a further 90º to face while the lady is in a free-spin.
2) the man turning 180º to face the lady and braceing for the push into free-spin.
I see 1) taught as the walk-through on stage, but 2) shown as the demo... which is the "correct" version? And which looks better?

[Gojive]

Originally Posted by Gadget

The Yo-Yo:
* at this point I have see two variations:
1) the man turning 90º to mirror the lady's pose, then turning a further 90º to face while the lady is in a free-spin.
2) the man turning 180º to face the lady and braceing for the push into free-spin.
I see 1) taught as the walk-through on stage, but 2) shown as the demo... which is the "correct" version? And which looks better?

There's a third variation as well, usually taught outside the Ceroc arena, where the man doesn't turn at all. As he extends the arm out to the right, he steps back on his LEFT, then back again onto his right, as the lady turns 180 to face and block.

The version where the man turns 180 c/w to the block position, to me, is a travelling yo-yo, and therefore just a variation on the standard yo-yo.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by Gojive

There's a third variation as well, usually taught outside the Ceroc arenam, where the man doesn't turn at all.

That's not a variation - that's the proper Yo-Yo. The variations that Gadget's spotted are some new-fangled nonsense pretending to be a proper Yo-Yo! Why they had to give it the same name, I don't know.....

[Gadget]

Yea - that's similar to what was taught before the changes - I was focusing on what is taught now.
(You could go into a sway exit, a turn instead of push-spin, keep the lady flowing into a turn rather than blocking for the push-spin, instead of turning take the R hand to the R shoulder as you step to the right and release to shoulder slide and catch with the left... there are at least ten variations I can think on off the top of my head - but it's about what is shown and what the beginner ladies expect the man to do. )

[Gojive]

Originally Posted by Lou

That's not a variation - that's the proper Yo-Yo. The variations that Gadget's spotted are some new-fangled nonsense pretending to be a proper Yo-Yo! Why they had to give it the same name, I don't know.....

Thanks Lou!....this means I've been doing it properly all these years!!

Regardless of how it's taught though, I find my positioning/turning/footwork invariably depends on who I'm dancing with, and the style and tempo of the music being played. Sometimes the lady may be a little "less fast" in the turn, so I'll turn slightly to meet her etc

[Gojive]

Yea - that's similar to what was taught before the changes - I was focusing on what is taught now.

The version I mentioned Gadget, IS taught now - just not by Ceroc (afaik). For example, Rebelroc teach the step back version to today's beginners

[Gus]

Originally Posted by Gojive

There's a third variation as well, usually taught outside the Ceroc arena, where the man doesn't turn at all. As he extends the arm out to the right, he steps back on his LEFT, then back again onto his right, as the lady turns 180 to face and block.

AND there's a fourth variation, as taught by some Blitz instructors where on beat three the man steps FORWARD. ... oh and there is a FIFTH variation that used to be taught on the CTA Instructor course where on beats 3 and 4 the guy can put in a funky side to side 'skater' step. Is that still taught?

[Lou]

And tonight's challenge - How many different Yo-Yos can you fit into one dance without the lady becoming sick to death of them (or indeed noticing)?

[Chicklet]

What's the "official line" on hand hold when the guy has the lady's hand across his chest?

I learned that he has to KEEP HOLD of the hand if it's a yo-yo and flattening the hand with the ladies hand on his should make the lady expect a push spin sending her behind him....If i get a flat unheld hand I WILL GO! and have seen quite a few newer male dancers frown at me and get flustered.

Am I hopelessly out of date???
Or plain wrong??

[Gus]

Originally Posted by Chicklet

What's the "official line" on hand hold when the guy has the lady's hand across his chest?

I learned that he has to KEEP HOLD of the hand if it's a yo-yo and flattening the hand with the ladies hand on his should make the lady expect a push spin sending her behind him....If i get a flat unheld hand I WILL GO! and have seen quite a few newer male dancers frown at me and get flustered.

Am I hopelessly out of date???
Or plain wrong??

CTA didn't (in the ancient days) teach any difference. It has become custom and practice to differntiate as you've indicated. HOWEVER .. that difference in signal is not universal

[foxylady]

Originally Posted by Chicklet

What's the "official line" on hand hold when the guy has the lady's hand across his chest?

I learned that he has to KEEP HOLD of the hand if it's a yo-yo and flattening the hand with the ladies hand on his should make the lady expect a push spin sending her behind him....If i get a flat unheld hand I WILL GO! and have seen quite a few newer male dancers frown at me and get flustered.

Am I hopelessly out of date???
Or plain wrong??

They only frown and get flustered because they have led badly.

You are right.

FL

[MartinHarper]

Right arm is taken up to a flat handed hold at shoulder height, takeing the lady another 90º

At Ceroc, I prefer the woman to not rotate at this point, rather than rotating 90º AC, and try to lead appropriately. That's also what I tend to see around me. Accordingly, I prefer the 180º degrees male rotation, as then both dancers are facing each other. This also makes for a clearer distinction between the travelling yoyo and the static yoyo, in case you want to use both.

I feel that if the man and the woman both rotate 90º, the natural direction to send the lady is at right angles to the original "slot".

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by Chicklet

What's the "official line" on hand hold when the guy has the lady's hand across his chest?

I learned that he has to KEEP HOLD of the hand if it's a yo-yo and flattening the hand with the ladies hand on his should make the lady expect a push spin sending her behind him....If i get a flat unheld hand I WILL GO! and have seen quite a few newer male dancers frown at me and get flustered.

Am I hopelessly out of date???
Or plain wrong??

I don't know the "official" version, but...
... on the normal one, I try to trap the ladies fingers between my hand and my chest (or on occasion use the thumb over the fingers at this point) - the lead out from this point is a smooth and constant arc.
... on the push-spin, my hand is flat on my chest with the ladies hand flat on top - the lead out from here is a smooth but accelerated arc, giving slightly more compression than the normal lead for the lady to spin off of if desired.

But sometimes with the lightness of my grip, my "normal" yo-yo is mistaken by the lady and off they go. (unless I have led them into a 'push-spin' first) I think that the "standard" sould be turning out, and the lady should only go into a spin if one is led.

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

At Ceroc, I prefer the woman to not rotate at this point, rather than rotating 90º AC, and try to lead appropriately.

how? Do you expect them to remain motionless for one beat while you turn? Do you turn in half a beat and prepare on the other half beat?

I feel that if the man and the woman both rotate 90º, the natural direction to send the lady is at right angles to the original "slot".

It's a free-spin: the lady should remain on the same spot. There is no step into the spin, therefore no traveling (the step is in the preperation, where it is in the opposite direction from the spin)
But if they both rotate 90º then the symmetry can create nice lines and look very stylish.

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Chicklet

What's the "official line" on hand hold when the guy has the lady's hand across his chest?
I learned that he has to KEEP HOLD of the hand if it's a yo-yo and flattening the hand with the ladies hand on his should make the lady expect a push spin sending her behind him....If i get a flat unheld hand I WILL GO!

The push-spin sending the lady behind the guy is called a hatchback in JazzJive. Don't recall the Ceroc terminology, though I'm sure I've been told. I've picked up a few ways to distinguish the two in lead (and still lead the wrong one sometimes *shrug*).

* There can be that grip difference between the two. I've only been taught this once by a teacher, but am fairly often told this by fellow dancers.
* In yoyo, the right hands are faster nearer the chest, and slow down towards full extension. In hatchback, they start slow and speed up towards full extension.
* Difference in feel: yoyo is stocatto, low energy, constrained. Hatchback is continuous, high energy, unfettered.
* The man's right hand in the hatchback goes several inches further back than in the yoyo. The man may step forwards to emphasise this.
* The R-R connection is broken in the hatchback, and kept in the yo-yo.
* The guy checks behind him immediately prior to a hatchback.

Personally I find the grip difference lead a bit signally, and prefer to rely on the other differences, which I feel are more natural. This may change as I learn more yoyo variations...

[Chicklet]

Completely agree that how Gadget and Martin explain how a yoyo and "the other move" CAN and often DO feel completely different, my problem had been with beginners where the subtleties such as speeding up the arm towards the body v. away from the body really aren't there yet!

I've had many a flick out with the hand held and many a 1/2 inch flickette of a very limp wrist supposed to indicate a push spin!

Guess I'll muddle on and smile like I've done something amazingly advanced and stylish every time I get a "what the h*** was that" look!!

[Chicklet]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Personally I find the grip difference lead a bit signally, and prefer to rely on the other differences, which I feel are more natural. This may change as I learn more yoyo variations...

As above the other differences will work IF they are there!! So good on you for doing them!
Should we poll the woman on what works for us in general???

There are many moves for which I'm sure there must be signals, taps, winks etc, but I've never worked out what they are - example - does a man's thumb double tapping your hand (in the fleshy bit between thumb and first finger) REALLY signal a double turn on it's way???????? Is this widely known / taught??

However, I wouldn't have considered holding on to a hand because you have no intention of letting it go in a yoyo move to be classed as a signal, more an integral physical part of making the move work.

[MartinHarper]

Do you expect them to remain motionless for one beat while you turn? Do you turn in half a beat and prepare on the other half beat?

I think I use their weight to turn my body, rather than using my weight to turn their body (as in the non-travelling yoyo). Does that makes any sense?

If they both rotate 90º then the symmetry can create nice lines and look very stylish.

Oh, I agree: it's best if the dancers match. So either both turn 90º, or the guy stays still and the lady turns 180º, or the lady stays still and the guy turns 180º.

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

I think I use their weight to turn my body, rather than using my weight to turn their body (as in the non-travelling yoyo). Does that makes any sense?

Erm… no, not really - it sounds as if you rely on the lady to know the move and lead you into the preperation.