Dancing as a woman

[Bigger Andy]

Originally Posted by Chef

The offer from a lady to lead you is nice but you really have to go through the full horror of a guy leading you to gain an insight into what you may be meting out to a follower yourself.

OK ...

But, I have never done even one beginners move in the follow role before ! I would have thought that it might be best to concentrate on one thing at a time. If I can learn the follow role of each move, using a good lead, then I won't be thinking so much about the execution of the moves themselves and can then start thinking about dancing with other leads and think about whether their lead is good or not, and how that data can help me with my own dancing ?

( Is that a long sentence, or what ?!? )

[Chef]

Originally Posted by Bigger Andy

OK ...

But, I have never done even one beginners move in the follow role before ! I would have thought that it might be best to concentrate on one thing at a time. If I can learn the follow role of each move, using a good lead, then I won't be thinking so much about the execution of the moves themselves and can then start thinking about dancing with other leads and think about whether their lead is good or not, and how that data can help me with my own dancing ?

( Is that a long sentence, or what ?!? )

Just take a deep breadth, hold for a count of 2, exhale over 4 counts and repeat until the panic attack is over.

Get yourself to a beginners lesson nice and early. Explain what you want to do to the teacher so that they can explain it to the class from the stage just before the beginning of the lesson. Find a tame and friendly follower that has sympathy for what you about to do and start the lesson with them.

then - without being rude to followers - disconnect your leaders brain.

You no longer know the moves. you only know the signals that are coming though your fingers up you arm to your shoulders and into your body to indicate how to move. If you decide that you know the move and then make movements yourself then the whole thing will be destoyed for both you and your leader. If you find this happening then do the deep breathing exercise, close your eyes to shut off visual signals that would lead to you anticipating and do it again.

Stand up straight.

Concentrate on the hand. Reach out with your feelings and use the force Luke (oops sorry, wrong post).

Weather the jibbing.

Then go and find a good follwer and ask them to put you through the same set of moves and try and feel the difference. Reflect on your own leading.

Accept that the first 20 lessons in the followers role is going to be a nightmare (for the leaders as well).

For the first 4 lessons - any free spin that you finish standing up is a success.




Go Andy, Go!!!

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Chef

For the first 4 lessons - any free spin that you finish standing up is a success.

If you don't routinely spin while leading, you can practice free spins by yourself first, as a seperate thing.

[Chef]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

If you don't routinely spin while leading, you can practice free spins by yourself first, as a seperate thing.

Absolutely true and very well worth doing. It probably won't help you when following because bad leads (ie the majority in a beginners lesson) will try to "launch" you. They will apply far to much force in one big dollop rather than enough force smoothly. Find a good lead and compare and contrast.

A little exercise that I was made to do in my latin american classes. When you have got the basics of spinning try making a U shape on the floor out of plastic drinking cups. Step into the open end of the U, spin on the spot, stop and step back out through the open end of the U. If you are not on balance as you spin you will fall out of the U and knock the cups over and if you don't stop after exactly one revolution you won't be able to step back cleanly out of the U. As you get better make the U slightly smaller. Practice on each foot equally.

Happy Dancing

[Daisy Chain]

Originally Posted by Tiggerbabe

I love to dance the lead, but I still dance the lead as a lady - can't do it any other way

When I dance the lead, I do so as an hermaphrodite. I can do amibidextrous moves from the man's perspective but I find that I lead a lot of the more complicated ones from the lady's point of view and it doesn't always work

I think it may be because I'm lefthanded................never managed to learn to crochet either.

Daisy

(A Sinister Flower)

[Commis Chef]

Originally Posted by Chef

To Bigger Andy (and any leader contemplating learning to follow).

I am not trying to be hard on the leaders here (being one myself) because the leaders have a very tough job. The ladies will have to make up their own lists of what is going through their heads while they dance (I would not dare to presume) but this is the "task list" that goes through my head as I dance.

So that's what's going on in your head is it?!
I thought it was: 'What a fantastic partner I have' or more realistically, 'Why can't she get this move right the we have been practising for ages?'

What is going on in mine is:


This chap looks a bit nervous/inexperienced, I'll try to be encouraging.
This one looks better than me I hope I can keep up but I will learn from the experience.
Am I keeping in time with the lead?
This is a move I haven't been led into before -am I getting the right message and doing what's expected.
Am I in the right position for the next move?
Make sure I spot on these spins.
He's testing the routine from the lesson -that's good he's interested in progress.
Oh dear -I followed that wrong will he think I'm useless?
He is rushing me and I am not able to give my best.
He's tried to drop / lift me without permission -how annoying.
We are out of time shall I do a bit of leading to get us back into time?
We are out of time -this bloke can't keep time- I'm starting not to enjoy it.
A break is coming up will he be using it? Shall I use it anyway?
Shall I try a sabbotage move or will it just throw him?
Those people near us are not watching where they are going.
The people behind my partner, who he can't see, are moving into our space.I need to warn him.
This is a great dance should I ask for the next as well.
This is a dull dance -I'll ask that chap over there next.
I don't like touching this man because he is soaked in sweat!
I need to sit down to recover from that!
That was a lovely dance. I will come back for more.

[baldrick]

Having followed (badly) for a laugh a few times I took a class as follow for the fist time.
Thankyou Bee Bee. I did feel guilty, I was robbing the class of an experianced (a little bit) lead.
The whole switch of your head is too simple. I had to concentrate like mad to keep the tension in my arm. At the end of the lesson I had what climbers call 'pump' is this normal. I know I'm soving some weight (me) about but?
Getting on to the correct foot for 1st move and then the spin out had me working hard too.
I wanted to try to get an insight into the problems of learning to follow. Congratulations to the ladies who make it seem so smooth.

My only consolation was Bee Bee wandering off aftre the class muttering
"My head hurts" I was right its interesting to know how the other half does it. Will I do it again, darn right.

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by baldrick

At the end of the lesson I had what climbers call 'pump' is this normal. I know I'm soving some weight (me) about but?

I find that following is much better exercise than leading. Definitely gets my heart going.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by Tiggerbabe

I love to dance the lead, but I still dance the lead as a lady - can't do it any other way

I sometimes get feedback that says I lead nicely, but that I don't dance like a man!

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Lou

I sometimes get feedback that says I lead nicely, but that I don't dance like a man!

ditto

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

ditto

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally Posted by Lou

I sometimes get feedback that says I lead nicely, but that I don't dance like a man!

Thanks Lou, that's exactly what I meant. I do "lead" the dance (as oppose to taking charge as the follower) but I'm still very much a girl

[Zebra Woman]

Originally Posted by Tiggerbabe

Thanks Lou, that's exactly what I meant. I do "lead" the dance (as oppose to taking charge as the follower) but I'm still very much a girl

Yes that is definitely a compliment....I would say the same of Sparkles

I love the way a woman who is leading me is still feminine and fully swinging those hips.

ZW

[Clive Long]

Originally Posted by Zebra Woman

<< cut >>

I love the way a woman who is leading me is still feminine and fully swinging those hips.

ZW

I wonder how many men's heart rates have just gone up 10bpm?

Maybe even beyond "Cerocable" speeds.

All these female (London-ish) leads - I've been told I need a dose of that. Please reveal yourselves - I need your help to develop as a dancer.

Yours platonically


CRL

[El Salsero Gringo]

Well in response to this thread I tried the beginner's class last night as a follower, with a fixed partner - thank you Carol, if you're here - outside the rotation. I just wasn't brave enough to run the gauntlet.

The moves were fine, the spins were fine - but the returns? Almost impossible to keep my balance at the time to 'step back'. I always seemed to be on the wrong foot - whether it was left or right.

It was great fun though.

[Sparkles]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Well in response to this thread I tried the beginner's class last night as a follower, with a fixed partner - thank you Carol, if you're here - outside the rotation. I just wasn't brave enough to run the gauntlet.

The moves were fine, the spins were fine - but the returns? Almost impossible to keep my balance at the time to 'step back'. I always seemed to be on the wrong foot - whether it was left or right.

It was great fun though.

My guess is you were using the same foot to return on as you were to spin on - it's much harder (IMO) to spin on the foot on the opposite side to the way you were turning. Or, in English, if your turning left (anticlockwise) spin on the left, if you're turning right (clockwise), spin on the right. The other tricks include: spin on the balls of your feet, keep your knees slightly bent, spot the room, use the foot you're not spinning on as a break.
If you were already doing all of the above then my second guess is that you're a quite tall guy dancing with a woman who was shorter than you - because when you're spun in a free spin it's usually led at 'waist' level, and so won't pull you off balance, but if you're 'returned' the arm has to go over your head, and, unless it's directly above your head, it'll knock you off balance (and while this can be accounted for if you have enough practice at it, if you're a "new woman" it might make it feel a bit awkward for a time).

S. x

[Banana Man]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Well in response to this thread I tried the beginner's class last night as a follower, with a fixed partner - thank you Carol, if you're here - outside the rotation. I just wasn't brave enough to run the gauntlet.

The moves were fine, the spins were fine - but the returns? Almost impossible to keep my balance at the time to 'step back'. I always seemed to be on the wrong foot - whether it was left or right.

It was great fun though.

Hmm, maybe it's the shoes, try something flat at first and work up to 3", understand Andy Mc can give you advice on suitable attire.

[foxylady]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Well in response to this thread I tried the beginner's class last night as a follower, with a fixed partner - thank you Carol, if you're here - outside the rotation. I just wasn't brave enough to run the gauntlet.

The moves were fine, the spins were fine - but the returns? Almost impossible to keep my balance at the time to 'step back'. I always seemed to be on the wrong foot - whether it was left or right.

It was great fun though.

I didn't notice you losing your balance when I led you during the frestyle.....

Infact for a guy who leads quite assertively, you followed as a woman very well !
( I think you'd look quite good in a dress, but with your height I'd recommend flatties.....)

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by Sparkles

If you were already doing all of the above then my second guess is that you're a quite tall guy dancing with a woman who was shorter than you

Spot-on, Your Sparkliness - the lady was indeed a fair way shorter than me. I shall just have to put in plenty of practice.


As for the rest of you... next week it might just be the blonde wig, red frock and heels. Don't say you haven't been warned. (Foxy - will you help me with my make-up?)

[Bigger Andy]

Well, I've done it ! Last night I danced the beginners class as a follower !

My original reasons for dancing as a follower were because I felt that my dancing was beginning to stagnate and I wanted to find some way of getting it back on track and improving again. I talked to a number of different people, both on the Forum and outside, and a common suggestion was to try the follower's role. Certainly, it seems to be a skill that all the teachers and the top dancers have. I thought about this and believe that it would help my (and any other man's) dancing in 3 ways :-
1). It would force me to learn how to spin properly.
2). I would learn what to do with my "spare" hand.
3). I would find out what it is like to be led and therefore appreciate what a good lead is. Hopefully, I could then ensure that my own lead is good when I revert to dancing the leader's role.

Anyway, I managed to talk a nice young lady into leading me. She is a good dancer who is a Taxi Dancer at Canterbury, although she wasn't on duty last night. She seemed to be happy to do it and did comment that it saved her a lot of effort as she would otherwise have had to put on her walking shoes along with the other 20 or so "spare" ladies who were in the rotation. Either way, I appreciated her doing it !

The routine that we did was :-
'Armjive Swizzle', 'Octopus', 'First Move Push Spin' and a 'Back Pass'.

I feel that even after just one beginners class as a follower, I learned a lot.

The first problem was to overcome the initial feeling of the wierdness of the situation ! I don't know how else to describe it. It just didn't feel right.

I have not even walked through a single move as a follower before last night and I'm sure that my early attempts to follow must have been a bit clumsy. However, by the end of the class, I felt that I had improved considerably and that it was beginning to flow (relatively ! ).