The 'Back Pass'.

[Bigger Andy]

I have noticed that the 'Back Pass' is taught differently in the two venues that I have attended recently.

At one venue the leader is taught to transfer the followers right hand directly from their right to their left hand behind their back.

However, at the other venue the leader is taught to place the followers right hand on their right hip so that it then trails across their back before catching it in their left hand.

I wonder which is the "official" version ?

I rather suspect that the direct transfer would be the preferred option, especially later in the evening when the dancers have worked up a bit of a sweat !

[Gadget]

I would say that the "hip" style is more a right-handed man-spin*; you are not really 'passing' the hand.

However it does solve a couple of regular errors that can be seen in the back-pass:

• - the lady dosn't try and grab your left hand as you move it towards the 'transfer'
• - the timing of when the hand transfer is done is not important; only the timing of the catch at the other side
• - you don't have to throw/catch, or hang on, or dissengage, or have to do any other manipulation of the lady's hand
• - you are not tempted to lean forward and keep the hands higher than they should be, (and the lady does not get a chance to have you in a half-nelson )
• - you can easily take more time over the move, or change to another move.

Down sides:

• - The lower back is a collection point for sweat and may be soggy.. unless the lady traces accross the bum instead
• - you have to release, slide and catch: three actions instead of just transferring therefore it can't be done as quickly
• - the man has to move rather than the lady
• - the lady is a lot closer and you have to be more carefull not to trample her (especially if done quicker)

I think that they are two seperate moves; I would use the 'back-pass' more for faster paced stuff and the 'RH man-spin' for slower, closer stuff.

* my name: I have no idea if the move even exists, or what the "offical" move is

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Gadget

I would say that the "hip" style is more a right-handed man-spin*; you are not really 'passing' the hand.

I don't want to call it a lazy one or workaround although these were the first things that sprang to mind

Obviously there is more coordination required if you actually pass the hand on, and since you do that behind your back I guess, it makes it the back pass

[Allez-Cat]

Originally Posted by Gadget

I would use the 'back-pass' more for faster paced stuff and the 'RH man-spin' for slower, closer stuff.

I'd go along with that: if it's a quick, tight tempo, I hate losing contact with my partner, so actually passing the hand makes sense. Or maybe I'm just a control freak.

I don't suppose anybody's come up with another name for this move - I occasionally dance with a bunch of medics, and they all crease up when the move's announced.....

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by Allez-Cat

I occasionally dance with a bunch of medics, and they all crease up when the move's announced.....

It's not just medics, I promise you.

Terrible name, although it might indicate a sense of humour on the part of whomever named it

[jiveoholic]

I have been taught both methods for the "back-hander" or "screw-driver" which I think is the same as your "back pass". I have no doubt in MY mind that passing your hand in a nelson behind the ladies back and then her turning clockwise as you swap sides is DANGEROUS. If the lady does not turn fast enought and the man does not let go, there will be an "ooch" and possibly more exclamations of pain!

I believe that the archi-spin and back-hander have two factors in common - the lady turns 1.5 turns whilst the man turns a mere half turn. The only way I have got this move to feel right is if the lady STARTS to turn early, ie before being physically lead. It is the first time I have heard of placing the lady's hand on her own hip, but I can see why this might work, however I have got a positive responce by requesting that the lady recognises the gentle squeeze and twisted hand and she starts turning immediately, in fact possibly even leading the man. It is then a dream for the man to pass her hand behind her back, as she is turning, and collect the same hand with his other placed around her front.

How do you tell the difference between the archi-spin and back-hander? Some suggest that the latter is indicated by the man offering his right obviously. Some say that the lady recognises her hand being raised or lowered behind her back. I say that provided she is not stiff-armed, she can be lead and will find out!

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by jiveoholic

I have been taught both methods for the "back-hander" or "screw-driver" which I think is the same as your "back pass".

The ceroc back pass is a simple change of places move, taking four counts (including return) - the same timing as the man spin, or shoulder slide. It involves a half turn for both boy and girl. Starts R-R, ends L-R.

The back-hander is a different move, I think?

[spindr]

Originally Posted by jiveoholic

I have been taught both methods for the "back-hander" or "screw-driver" which I think is the same as your "back pass".

Hmmm, maybe I use different names

The backhander has the lady's right arm in a hammerlock behind her back.

The backpass is just the man swapping hands from right to left -- you could have the man with his left arm in a hammerlock behind his back, but you don't really need to.

The screwdriver is more like a very fast sway, and turn out.

Actually, the problems with the travelling archie spin and the backhander could be exacerbated if the lady turns immediately -- she has to start travelling first, otherwise the move will break down. One other problem with the backhander is if the man raises the arm too early.

Cheers,
SpinDr.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Off-topic, I know, but can anyone recall the name for the Back-hander variation where the man also turns, anti-clockwise (to the lady's clockwise), swapping her right hand *back* into his left behind his back as he goes?

[jiveoholic]

Originally Posted by spindr

Hmmm, maybe I use different names

The backhander has the lady's right arm in a hammerlock behind her back.

The backpass is just the man swapping hands from right to left -- you could have the man with his left arm in a hammerlock behind his back, but you don't really need to.

The screwdriver is more like a very fast sway, and turn out.

SpinDr.

Originally Posted by Bigger Andy

I have noticed that the 'Back Pass' is taught differently in the two venues that I have attended recently.

At one venue the leader is taught to transfer the followers right hand directly from their right to their left hand behind their back.

However, at the other venue the leader is taught to place the followers right hand on their right hip so that it then trails across their back before catching it in their left hand.

Ok I am totally confused! Could Andy describe the move with numbers of turns and directions for both parties and whether a change of places takes place?

[jiveoholic]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Off-topic, I know, but can anyone recall the name for the Back-hander variation where the man also turns, anti-clockwise (to the lady's clockwise), swapping her right hand *back* into his left behind his back as he goes?

Hey that sounds cool. I would call it a "back-hander cog".

[Simon r]

If you took a really long time over the back pass would it become a ......................................
..................................
....................................Back pass age

[Bigger Andy]

Originally Posted by Simon r

If you took a really long time over the back pass would it become a ......................................
..................................
....................................Back pass age

Oh nooooooooooo ...

[Bigger Andy]

Originally Posted by jiveoholic

Ok I am totally confused! Could Andy describe the move with numbers of turns and directions for both parties and whether a change of places takes place?

The 'Back Pass' that I was first taught started with the couple Right Hand to Right Hand.
The leader then turns 1/4 turn left as the follower steps forward.
The leader then transfers the followers Right Hand from his Right Hand to his Left Hand behind his back as he does another 1/4 turn left and the follower does a 1/2 turn right. The couple have now swapped places.

The second 'Back Pass' that I was taught was different only in that the followers RH was not transferred directly for the leaders RH to his LH, and is as follows :-

The move started with the couple Right Hand to Right Hand.
The leader then turns 1/4 turn left and places his and the followers Right Hands on his right hip as the follower steps forward.
The leader then lets go with his Right Hand and offers his Left Hand behind him and collects the followers Right Hand from trailing across his back as he does another 1/4 turn left and the follower does a 1/2 turn right. The couple have now swapped places.

A return is normally taught at the end of both variations of this move.

[Groovy Dancer]

Originally Posted by Simon r

If you took a really long time over the back pass would it become a ......................................
..................................
....................................Back pass age

Going for a wider audience I see..


KGD