Beginner Moves: Tips & advice

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Do you disagree?

Always I can't help it - it's an afliction.

But if, in the First Move - during the step in - she doesn't bring her two feet together but instead steps past you a whole stride with her left ~snip~

I know you said 'leave the lead out of the equation', but you are leading her! it's about preperation and anticipation from your part; active rather than reactive.
If she is stepping in too far or too short, then you place your foot in line with hers as hers touches the floor.

As a wise man once said*... if something goes wrong in your dancing, don't look at where it went wrong: look at the movement before it went wrong - that's most likley where the problem lies.

{Franck if you were wondering}

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by Gadget

I know you said 'leave the lead out of the equation', but you are leading her! it's about preperation and anticipation from your part; active rather than reactive.

Well, I don't know which Ceroc teachers Whitebeard was talking about when he said they take an extra step, so I wouldn't have the nerve to criticise their lead. On the other hand, since, as I said, I don't have a problem dancing these moves *without* that extra step, it must be because my lead is spot-on perfect. No?

Originally Posted by Gadget

If she is stepping in too far or too short, then you place your foot in line with hers as hers touches the floor.

That's only going to work if you're stepping back at the start of the move with the right foot, otherwise your weight is on your right at the moment whereof you speak. If you step back initially with the left, you can't adjust the position of your right until half a beat after your feet have come together - which you would do by making exactly the extra step we've been discussing.

So you see, we do agree, after all!

[Lou]

OK. I can never help myself from joining in a good footwork debate. I have 2 footwork patterns as a lady for a First Move which work for me. YFMV.

A. The Bristolian LeRoc and Australian pattern

Count 1: Back on the left foot.
Count 2: Step forward to guy's side with right foot.
Count 2.5: Bring feet together with weight on left foot & start pivot
Count 3: Turn out, back on right foot.
Count 4: Pivot on left, bring feet together (come palm to palm)
Count 5: Transfer weight to right, turn clockwise, break with left
Count 6: Step back on right.

B. The "That's it, freak me out why don't you, Nigel" walking pattern

Count 1: Step Back on right (!) foot. (Oh my)
Count 1.5: Replace left foot
Count 2: Step forward to guy's side with right foot.
Count 2.5: Step slightly behind guy with left foot & start to turn
Count 3: Turn out, back on right foot.
Count 3.5: Replace left foot forward. (start to "pivot")
Count 4: Small step on right foot (come palm to palm)
Count 4.5 Small step on left as start to turn clockwise
Count 5 Small step on right, continuing to turn clockwise
Count 5.5 Small step on left, continuing to turn clockwise, come to face
Count 6 Step back on right.

On option A, it's mighty difficult for the lady to step far past you on that pivot.
On Option B, it's easier for her to step back, but don't forget you have her quite controlled in your ballroom hold.

But it would be quite easy, and it would probably flow well, to put in the extra small step on count 2.5 - same as I've said about in the basket, by stepping on your inside foot & then on your outside foot on count 3. But, as a man, you'd need to feel quite comfortable on stepping on the half count. But, imho, it isn't necessary.

(BTW - look Franck - I've become more open minded! I can step back on the right foot, now! )

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by Lou

... but don't forget you have her quite controlled in your ballroom hold.

Ballroom hold? BALLROOM HOLD? How could you!!!

No, just kidding. I *love* a ballroom hold for the first move.

I have also heard lady teachers recommend a "cheat" on beat four - instead of coming back feet all in a line, palm to palm, the lady brings her right foot to a position a little way back from, and to the right of, her left. That gives her a gap to turn into under the man's arm.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

No, just kidding. I *love* a ballroom hold for the first move.

Now - there's a thing!
(btw.... was exagerating about the hold.... )

I have also heard lady teachers recommend a "cheat" on beat four - instead of coming back feet all in a line, palm to palm, the lady brings her right foot to a position a little way back from, and to the right of, her left. That gives her a gap to turn into under the man's arm.

Good cheat. I see most people dance that in freestyle, anyway. Also, some classes teach the move by leading the lady right in front, facing the man, on count 4. Getting from 3 to 4 is more difficult, but the turn is then far easier for the lady.

[Clive Long]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Well, I don't know which Ceroc teachers Whitebeard was talking about when he said they take an extra step, so I wouldn't have the nerve to criticise their lead. ....

A totally novel response from ESG

CRL

[Whitebeard]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

You're absolutely right - he does step back twice .....

Phew - thanks. So there is an issue and its not just some senile old fogey wittering away !!

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

So I can now see that in an energetic freestyle you might *have* to take that little extra step in order to match up to your partner's size of stride. Perhaps that's the answer to the mystery?

And yet, where I most consciously take those two full steps is in those slower really musical numbers where it introduces a brief, but nice, "ballroomey" moment.

[icubaby]

Hi all hope you are enjoying shakin ur bits as much as me!

My whole dance reptiore is based on 6 beginners classes so please excuse my ignorance

Is this the place to find out about beginners moves specifically the names and difficulty level?
Is there a printable list of moves to tick off as you learn ?

the reason I ask is that when somebody says have you learnt ...? the answer is sometimes yes but up until that moment I had completely forgotten. it's not just learning the moves but remembering the language and the way that they intertwine here's what i can remember so far
1.YOYO
2. combe
3.basket
4. twist
5.twist twizzel
6. octopus
7 pretzel
8 in and out
9 side step
sorry don't know the names of the other ones ....see what i mean? can't remember that many when I'm dancing ...suprised myself !!!

any others??

kind regards

[David Bailey]

Hi Icubaby

This is probably not the best place for a list / description of moves themselves. However, there are lots of sites on the web that do this - you could try the afterfive web site or the Beginners section of the Jiveaholics web site.

This section (I believe) is more about general tips and advice, and this thread (again, I believe) is mainly about a few specific beginner moves and problems with them. And gossip of course

Hope that helps
David

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by icubaby

Hi all hope you are enjoying shakin ur bits as much as me!

My whole dance reptiore is based on 6 beginners classes so please excuse my ignorance

Hi!

Well my repertoire is based on 8 classes and a couple of workshops, so I'm in a similar position.

Is this the place to find out about beginners moves specifically the names and difficulty level?
Is there a printable list of moves to tick off as you learn ?

I've looked hard for an official complete list of beginners moves. Haven't found one yet.

David James gave some good links though, and to them I'd add this one:

Ceroc Beginners Moves

It's probably out of date, but that whole web site is quite useful.

... here's what i can remember so far
1.YOYO
2. combe
3.basket
4. twist
5.twist twizzel
6. octopus
7 pretzel
8 in and out
9 side step
sorry don't know the names of the other ones ....see what i mean? can't remember that many when I'm dancing ...suprised myself !!!

If you have the patience to read all my posts in this thread you'll come up with a list of all the moves I've done over the last eight weeks.

I'm surprised you've done the pretzel as a beginner - I thought it was an intermediate move.

Cheers!

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by ducasi

I'm surprised you've done the pretzel as a beginner - I thought it was an intermediate move

I thought it'd had been officially removed from the approved list or something? Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, it's a horrible move...

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by ducasi

... pretzel ...

Originally Posted by DavidJames

... it's a horrible move...

Funny, I've only really tried it a couple of times, but I liked it - haven't yet been taught it properly as part of a routine, so maybe I'm missing something...

What's not to like?

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Funny, I've only really tried it a couple of times, but I liked it - haven't yet been taught it properly as part of a routine, so maybe I'm missing something...

What's not to like?

Well, that's just a personal opinion - and I'll admit I liked it when I started too.

But for me, for now, it's just got so many arms going all over the place, it's like working through a routine, you pretty much have to do the whole thing once you're started, and it's just too much hard work. Bit like the Tunnel (don't worry, you'll get to that one ). I'm probably just getting lazier as I get older though. Having said that, I do occasionally still use it, but I don't really enjoy it much.

[tsh]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Well, that's just a personal opinion - and I'll admit I liked it when I started too.

But for me, for now, it's just got so many arms going all over the place, it's like working through a routine, you pretty much have to do the whole thing once you're started, and it's just too much hard work. Bit like the Tunnel (don't worry, you'll get to that one ). I'm probably just getting lazier as I get older though. Having said that, I do occasionally still use it, but I don't really enjoy it much.

There are plenty of variations on the Pretzl, either with the ending, or by turning it into a spin, lean or walk-round at the beginning. It isn't one I'll use with partners who I don't think have been taught it though, the arms do have a tendancy to go all over the place!

Sean

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by tsh

There are plenty of variations on the Pretzl, either with the ending, or by turning it into a spin, lean or walk-round at the beginning. It isn't one I'll use with partners who I don't think have been taught it though, the arms do have a tendancy to go all over the place!

Yes... Why do I dislike the pretzel? I think it's probably the feel of it more than anything else, all these arms waving around as you said - dunno though, I think I just take an irrational dislike to some moves...