Eyes wide shut.... not the BTC dances...

[Wendy]

I'm not talking yummy, bluesy "better than chocolate" stuff here.. this is the beginners' corner.

Since it seems to work really well in beginner workshops (and I do it in the revision class every now and again).. would it be helpful, for the men and the women, for a move (or indeed all the moves) to be danced with the women's eyes shut ?

It could help the men to understand the leading thing better .. and maybe help the women to follow better ??? If it was done to a slow track and not too busy I think it could work..

Wxxx

[Gadget]

Yes, I recommend it as a great way for beginners to learn what it feels like to be led and focus on feeling movement rather than seeing it: blocking out the visual lead and distractions you are picking up from your partner so that you are only going on the physical lead (and the music).

If your partner leads strange moves, then it will probably help (assuming that they can actually lead the moves properly ). But it's only half of leading: you could also try removing the physical lead and going soley by the visual clues. {I need to practice this; I think the visual lead from my body position is often contrary to my physical lead }

[Yliander]

Originally Posted by Wendy

It could help the men to understand the leading thing better .. and maybe help the women to follow better ??? If it was done to a slow track and not too busy I think it could work..

Yes it does help - it's technique I often use in my own training.

We use this exercise in our consolidation classes - which i am thinking are the same as beginner revision - this exercise really stops the girls from anticipating and gives the guys a chance to lead proberbly - always get lots of ooo's thats how it works when doing this exercise.

[David Bailey]

I suggested a blindfold class a while back, but now I'm not so sure. It's great to avoid anticipation, of course, but lots of moves have a visual lead, and lots of leads have a visual component to them; hand signals, nodding meaningfully, staring in a deranged way (OK, that last one's probably just me).
I'm not sure about the beginner's move set, but are things like the catapult included? Hmm, I guess it is leadable without visual cues...
It's an interesting idea, but in the average class (esp. beginner class) it could lead to chaos (people bumping into each other etc). And in an intermediate class you'd have to tailor the moves carefully to pick non-visual cue moves - not impossible I guess, but you could still bump into people...

I think this is a great idea, but it's best left to style workshops, where you have time and space to focus on this sort of thing.

[Wendy]

Originally Posted by Gadget

Yes, I recommend it as a great way for beginners to learn what it feels like to be led and focus on feeling movement rather than seeing it: blocking out the visual lead and distractions you are picking up from your partner so that you are only going on the physical lead (and the music).

That's what I was thinking.....

Originally Posted by Gadget

If your partner leads strange moves, then it will probably help (assuming that they can actually lead the moves properly ).

Em.. by the time they'd be doing this, hopefully no-one would be doing strange moves in the beginners class ..

Originally Posted by Gadget

you could also try removing the physical lead and going soley by the visual clues.

That is a great exercise and I mean to practise it more often... and possibly something for the intermediate class to their teeth into ?

[Wendy]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I'm not sure about the beginner's move set, but are things like the catapult included? .

Possibly not

Originally Posted by DavidJames

..in the average class (esp. beginner class) it could lead to chaos (people bumping into each other etc). And in an intermediate class you'd have to tailor the moves carefully to pick non-visual cue moves - not impossible I guess, but you could still bump into people....

True. Maybe just a move or two.. possibly an "in and out" or even "the semi circle" . Also suggest that guys get to do "the semi cirlce" in their own time.. it's the first move everyone learns (I know not everyone likes it !!) afterall so why not introduce the lead/follow aspect of the dance right at the very beginning ? oh god I've turned into Julie Andrews arrghhh ARRGGHHHHH

Wx

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Wendy

True. Maybe just a move or two.. possibly an "in and out" or even "the semi circle" .

Don't get me wrong, I think the idea's got potential, and if I ever get to dance in a place quiet enough not to worry about excessive bumpage, I'll try it out myself in a freestyle. And maybe just a "close your eyes for this one" exercise in a regular class would be interesting, I'll suggest it to my local teacher to see what she says. Assuming this doesn't contravene section 5.2.17.5a of the Ceroc Law or whatever

[Lynn]

Hmm, not sure how this would work with moves with a spin - I think I visually am aware (more or less) when I have done 360 - not sure I would be able to tell the degree to which I had spun round if I had my eyes shut. (Mind you, my spinning needs a lot of work anyway, so that could be the reason and it might be fine for everyone else! )

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Wendy

True. Maybe just a move or two.. possibly an "in and out" or even "the semi circle" .

Don't get me wrong, I think the idea's got potential, and if I ever get to dance in a place quiet enough not to worry about excessive bumpage, I'll try it out myself in a freestyle. And maybe just a "close your eyes for this one" exercise in a regular class would be interesting, I'll suggest it to my local teacher to see what she says...

Assuming this doesn't contravene section 5.2.17.5a of the Ceroc Law or whatever

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Don't get me wrong, I think the idea's got potential, and if I ever get to dance in a place quiet enough not to worry about excessive bumpage, I'll try it out myself in a freestyle. And maybe just a "close your eyes for this one" exercise in a regular class would be interesting, I'll suggest it to my local teacher to see what she says...

Assuming this doesn't contravene section 5.2.17.5a of the Ceroc Law or whatever

Am I experiencing deju vu - did you not just post that 2 posts back?

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I'm not sure about the beginner's move set, but are things like the catapult included?

Why not?
I can lead every beginner's move with eyes closed (and catch the lady in the correct place again)* I can lead dancers through every move in my repertoir with their eyes closed** - I try never to use visual signals; I will always collect a hand if I need it, or use another move to end in the correct hand hold.

{*Practiced with 'intermediate dancers' during the beginner's class. - I find it helps me visualise the move and where/how I should move the lady.}

{** Some very good dancers have done this with me, and personally, I find them easier to lead like this - I think it is this more than anything that makes me think that my 'visual' signals and body positioning don't tie in with what I am leading... yet another thing to improve on }

Originally Posted by Lynn

Hmm, not sure how this would work with moves with a spin

The blindfold lady requires that the man not throw her off-balance in the spin and collect her at the right time. These two simple things should make it lots easier for her. {...and trusting the man of course.}

For the men to lead and catch it blindfold requires firstly the ability to lead a spin for the lady without her traveling (or traveling however much you lead her): this means guiding the lady into the spin without upsetting her balance - not pulling or pushing her, keeping her hand level and the movement smooth.
Secondly, you have to catch - if you've done the first part properly, then this is simply keeping your hand in the same plane, roughly where you lost contact with the lady.

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Hmm, not sure how this would work with moves with a spin

Well, it'd make spotting harder...
We rely a lot on our vision for our sense of balance, so while the guys are working on their lead, the women can be working on their balance. On the other hand, with beginner women, I'd be worried about some of them falling over.

[Wendy]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Well, it'd make spotting harder...
We rely a lot on our vision for our sense of balance, so while the guys are working on their lead, the women can be working on their balance. On the other hand, with beginner women, I'd be worried about some of them falling over.

I find spinning very hard with my eyes closed and I'd NEVER attempt a double spin !!! Turns/returns are fine though. So maybe this idea wouldn't work with all the moves...

And Gadget, how do you get the lady to reach out for your your left hand in a "catapult" when she is behind you with her eyes closed ????

Wx

[Gary]

I often run a "girls eyes closed" exercise in Beginner Progression classes. As well as the benefits to following, I also use it to emphasise to the guys that it is mostly their responsibility to avoid collisions (bunch them all up in a corner of the room for added challenge).

One of the ceroc competitions here sometimes has a Girls Blindfolded novelty event. If you weren't looking closely, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a normal event, people end up doing pretty much all the same moves (including spins and mini-aerials (aerials are banned)).

[Wendy]

Originally Posted by Gary

One of the ceroc competitions here sometimes has a Girls Blindfolded novelty event.

Sounds fab !! And who is your Beginner Progression class aimed at ?

Wx

[Gary]

Originally Posted by Wendy

...And who is your Beginner Progression class aimed at ?

Um, beginners?

It has also been known as Beginner Revision, Consolidation (and possibly other names).

It's the class which runs at the same time as the Intermediate class, for people who aren't quite ready for intermediate.

[Wendy]

Thanks.. same as our revision class then. Just wondered if it was for more advanced beginners.

Wx

[Yliander]

Originally Posted by Gary

I often run a "girls eyes closed" exercise in Beginner Progression classes. As well as the benefits to following, I also use it to emphasise to the guys that it is mostly their responsibility to avoid collisions (bunch them all up in a corner of the room for added challenge).

run this exercise regularly in Consolidation classes here - and the only move I would not do it with is Lady spin - and this is simplely because it is an assisted free spin and many ladies are nervous about spinning when they can see.

It's one of my favourite exercises to use with beginners- as it is one that always seems to make a connection for people - can almost see the lightbulbs turning on over their heads!

Originally Posted by Gary

One of the ceroc competitions here sometimes has a Girls Blindfolded novelty event. If you weren't looking closely, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a normal event, people end up doing pretty much all the same moves (including spins and mini-aerials (aerials are banned)).

sometimes even when you do look closely you can't tell - wanted to see how well i was really following so half way through a dance that was being videoed I closed my eyes - watching the video neither me nor my dance partner could pick when I started dancing with my eyes closed.... did pick when i opened them - he multiple spinned me and somewhere after five I stumbled

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Am I experiencing deju vu - did you not just post that 2 posts back?

Obviously, it was such a good point that it deserved emphasizing...
No, hold on, I wanted to up my average posting rate...
Err, some evil genius hacked my system to maliciously make me look stupid...?

Oh, OK then, don't ask me. I tend to have multiple tabs open at the same time in my browser window, I could have pressed the button twice or something, who knows, computers are a mystery.