What happens in a consolidation class?

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Jive Brummie

Well, it's a little less formal, there is normally no stage/dance floor boundary and you can ask as many questions as you like and get through as much or as little as you want...

Also, less numbers, and the teachers (taxis) are there on your level; so I guess you could view it as a mini-workshop, from an atmosphere point-of-view.

Consolidation classes are a Good Thing. I just want more taxi-training, and more help on the intermediates, as I think they get a bit of a poor deal at the moment compared to the beginners.

So, I don't want much really...

[Jive Brummie]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Also, less numbers, and the teachers (taxis) are there on your level; so I guess you could view it as a mini-workshop, from an atmosphere point-of-view.

Consolidation classes are a Good Thing. I just want more taxi-training, and more help on the intermediates, as I think they get a bit of a poor deal at the moment compared to the beginners.

So, I don't want much really...

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by Gus

1) A few clubs still do the 'traditional' put the beginners ina separate line during the Intermedite and see if the sink or swim. Think Ceroc have mostly phased this out but I know that a few Blitz clubs still do this. This is a BAD thing. It scares hell out of beginners and the survivors end up with really bad habits (and sometimes bad attituides).

We used to do this at the Jive Bar when Viktor and Lydia taught. I found it really really helpful because it removed the heavy pressure to 'get it right'. It was never about being watched, or seeing if we sank or swam, but I'd never have dared to join in the main rotation at that time because I knew that I would have been disappointing my partners due to my lack of skill. In a line for the "less confident" I was happy to give it a go. I don't believe I picked up any bad habits from it - and my bad attitude? That's purely of my own making...

As for taxi-dancers in the intermediate class? Well, why not? It might not be their stated purpose right now, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. At one venue at which I dance there are often say 8 people in a beginner's workshop and five taxi-dancers. There's no reason why some of them shouldn't do the intermediate class.

Training for taxi-dancers: a good idea, but to what level should they be trained? And who by?

Originally Posted by Gus

I've come across a fair few taxi dancers who's dearth of dance technique knowledge is only exceeded by their ego ....

Doesn't that apply to some teachers too?

[Russell Saxby]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Well, yes, that's the situation now - but that's not my point, my point is that I'd like them to help out in the intermediates, for the reasons I stated.

Perhaps we need "Super-taxis" ("Stretch Limos"? ), possibly, as suggested, with some level of teacher training, to do this consolidation class / intermediates?

I see where you are coming from now.

At the moment Kelly & myself share the teaching down at Greenwich on a Tuesday - both fully qualified, so I guess we cover the above off already. We had so many beginners the other week that I actually took a small group aside with one of our newer taxis and worked with them away form the main revision group.

Anyways back to work

Russell

[Petal]

Originally Posted by Russell Saxby

Since when has a Taxi Dancers primary function been to demonstrate or be in the intemediate class.

I was a taxi for a number of years starting back in 1996, and in all this time I have never seen / or known it to be a Taxi's responsibility to show the Intermediates which way to move up and down the rows.

Taxis are there for Beginners - hence introducing them on stage at the end of the beginners class.
Russell

Taxis are not involved in the intermediate class, and surely by the time people move on to the intermediate class, and the teacher gives instructions, they know which way to move through the class; and there are always regulars in the class to point you in the right direction if you're unsure.

I've found that beginners prefer to have music in the revision class, used at different points in the class and then for the last 5 minutes or so to let them freestyle (we have a separate room for the revision class) without thinking that everyone is looking at them so they feel less intimidated by the better dancers.

I think the revision class is valuable, and would also be useful for newer intermediate dancers who are having difficulty with specific moves, but taken by the teacher at some point. And yes i know teachers are busy, but once they've taught the intermediate class, in my experience, they dance for most of the remainder of the night, and they could allocate 15 minutes at a specific time to go over the intermediate moves taught that evening.

[Petal]

Originally Posted by Gus

1) A few clubs still do the 'traditional' put the beginners ina separate line during the Intermedite and see if the sink or swim. .

How cruel!!!

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by Petal

Taxis are not involved in the intermediate class, and surely by the time people move on to the intermediate class, and the teacher gives instructions, they know which way to move through the class; and there are always regulars in the class to point you in the right direction if you're unsure.

Yeah, you'd think so, wouldn't you! Unfortunately...

Originally Posted by Petal

I've found that beginners prefer to have music in the revision class, used at different points in the class and then for the last 5 minutes or so to let them freestyle (we have a separate room for the revision class) without thinking that everyone is looking at them so they feel less intimidated by the better dancers.

Which is the same reason why a separate (and voluntary) 'new intermediates' line in the intermediates class is a good idea. It's not a cruel trick to make them feel silly.

Originally Posted by Petal

I think the revision class is valuable, and would also be useful for newer intermediate dancers who are having difficulty with specific moves, but taken by the teacher at some point. And yes i know teachers are busy, but once they've taught the intermediate class, in my experience, they dance for most of the remainder of the night, and they could allocate 15 minutes at a specific time to go over the intermediate moves taught that evening.

They could do, but I don't think many teachers would like their duties extended arbitrarily. They're better off working the room and dancing with everyone, beginners included.

Adam Nathanson had a good idea which was to nominate a decent taxi-dancer to do the intermediate class, then that person would revise those moves with anyone who wanted, either after, or during the intermediate class of the week following. I thought that was a pretty cool idea, although it has obvious scheduling difficulties. As far as I know it's not been tried yet.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Doesn't that apply to some teachers too?

Woo, playing with fire there, boy.

How dare you insinuate that some ceroc teachers could be less-than-superb? Wash your mouth out, right now, you horrible Quasimodo figure you...

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Woo, playing with fire there, boy.

How dare you insinuate that some ceroc teachers could be less-than-superb? Wash your mouth out, right now, you horrible Quasimodo figure you...

... the bells ... the bells ...

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

... the bells ... the bells ...

I just sprayed biscuit over my keyboard, any more like that and I'm sending you the cleaning bill.

[Russell Saxby]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Woo, playing with fire there, boy.

How dare you insinuate that some ceroc teachers could be less-than-superb? Wash your mouth out, right now, you horrible Quasimodo figure you...

that would be the crap ones then

[Russell Saxby]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Which is the same reason why a separate (and voluntary) 'new intermediates' line in the intermediates class is a good idea. It's not a cruel trick to make them feel silly.

Yep understand it is not a cruel trick - as there would be no point to this at all, but still not convinced this is a good idea. As a teacher it could be off putting to see a whole row of beginners / new intermediates struggling with the class. There would be the temptation to slow the class down or starting pitching some of the teaching aspects at them to help guide them through it.

Granted I did my first ever class with a fixed partner at the back of the room. But come my second week of intermediates I joined in the main class, and it was the more experienced dances that helped me get through it and I am very grateful to them it would have been so easy for me to have been put off and stopped coming.

Having said all that I think a lot of the venues I know would struggle to fit another row in anyways.


Russell

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Russell Saxby

Yep understand it is not a cruel trick - as there would be no point to this at all, but still not convinced this is a good idea. As a teacher it could be off putting to see a whole row of beginners / new intermediates struggling with the class. There would be the temptation to slow the class down or starting pitching some of the teaching aspects at them to help guide them through it.l

Plus, as a beginner intermediate, you'd be dancing with other beginner intermediates, all as confused as you are, without the other benefit of being led / followed by more advanced intermediate dancer occasionally.

It's not a cruel trick, but I don't think the benefits would outweigh the problems.

Proper beginner-intermediate transition, that's what we need. Along with testing, taxi training, Stretch Limos... Blimey, my list is looking more and more like a manifesto every day

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Plus, as a beginner intermediate, you'd be dancing with other beginner intermediates, all as confused as you are, without the other benefit of being led / followed by more advanced intermediate dancer occasionally.

Don't overestimate the benefit that a new intermediate guy gets from trying a move in a class with a more experienced woman. To me it never outweighed the benefit of being relaxed enough to screw up without feeling like a dillup. Personally I would more likely have stopped coming if I'd had no choice but to humiliate myself in the main class. I favour consumer choice - if people want to form a line at the back for this purpose (and there's space), they'd hardly be inconveniencing the rest of the class, would they?

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

To me it never outweighed the benefit of being relaxed enough to screw up without feeling like a dillup.

OK, you win - just tell me, what on Earth is a dillup?

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

OK, you win - just tell me, what on Earth is a dillup?

It's what you feel like when by sad coincidence you dance with the exactly same intermediate lady on every pass around the class (this is now your fourth) and you have to apologize yet again because you still haven't *quite* got the hang of even the first move that the teacher did and it's throwing off any chance of you getting the rest of the routine. Actually you can see it in their eyes when they work out in advance who their new partner is going to be: "Oh no, I've got that dillup, AGAIN!"

[MartinHarper]

Interesting to read all this talk of how beginner folks can be intimidated by dancing in the same class as more advanced folks. For a little while now, I have wondered if some MJ beginner classes would benefit from fewer established intermediates and fewer advanced dancers, and this would be one way to improve MJ clubs. This might make them more like a review/consolidation class in feel, and thus increase both learning and repeat custom.

Others felt strongly that the learning benefits provided by plenty of non-beginners in the beginner class were highly significant, and easily outweighed the increased scariness. The dilemma brings to mind ChrisA's speculative ideas about how we could restructure beginner classes. I suppose the current systems are the most practical compromise anyone's come up with so far.

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

Don't overestimate the benefit that a new intermediate guy gets from trying a move in a class with a more experienced woman. To me it never outweighed the benefit of being relaxed enough to screw up without feeling like a dillup. Personally I would more likely have stopped coming if I'd had no choice but to humiliate myself in the main class. I favour consumer choice - if people want to form a line at the back for this purpose (and there's space), they'd hardly be inconveniencing the rest of the class, would they?

I've just come from a class where only by dancing with a more experienced woman was I able to do the intermediate moves. We'd been taught the full routine but I was still struggling with the first one, a Pretzel variation. Suddenly a woman who knows appears in front of me and equally suddenly it all works. And now that I had the move I was able to lead the less experienced women who followed on. Without the experienced dancers, who knows how many people would have gone away scratching their heads...

The best way to cure dillupism is to add experience.

I guess this adds to DavidJ's call for stretch limo's...

My recipe for a smoother transition from beginner to intermediate is to teach a single, separate easy-ish intermediate move each week at the end of the beginners' class. (Or maybe as part of the consolidation class with trained taxis?)

The total novices wouldn't need to worry that they can't do it, the middle beginners will know from it whether they should still fear the intermediate class, and the advanced beginners have a basis to start the intermediate class on.

Example: for the pretzel variation our teacher said at the start "I hope you've all done a pretzel before." If it had been introduced to us as an optional part of the beginners' class, we all would have.

Sensible idea, or the ravings of a lunatic? You decide...