Dips/drops/seducers

[firefly]

I realise this is probably the stupidest/most basic of beginner's questions

But what exactly is a dip and what is a drop? What is the difference between them? Is it to do with where your weight is supposed to be? How the lead supports you (probably not the right term)? Or something else completely different?

And reading through the forum, I've seen references to seducers too! What does it all mean? I'd really appreciate if someone could part the mists a little and make this poor beginner a little less confused!

[Gojive]

Not a stupid question at all Firefly

My interpretation, is that a drop is when the follower's head ends up below the lead's waist, and a dip when above above.

As for a seducer, I'm not sure there's so much of a definitive answer,. I'd say it's really any dip style move where the lead brings the follower in close, usually with at least one arm wrapped around the follower, and you end up staring/gazing into each other's eyes

[David Bailey]

Not a silly question at all. Ducasi did a similar thread a while back - "Dips vs Seducers vs Drops" - there are some good answers there, and other links too.

It's one of those nasty difficult questions like "What is Blues dancing?", really

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Not a silly question at all. Ducasi did a similar thread a while back - "Dips vs Seducers vs Drops" - there are some good answers there, and other links too.

Yeah, I was sure I'd wondered that myself...

Thanks for finding the thread where I actually got round to asking!

[Whitebeard]

I have never done a sedcucer in freestyle before as, at my time of life, I just do not have the utter confidence in my strength, reaction time, balance, timing, that is taken for granted by those with relative youth on their side. I have felt it better to err on the safe side and avoid them, even though I have done many in class (just ask First Move).

However last night's Intermediate was quite a nice simple routine, with only three main components, and for a change I found it starting to flow rather nicely. The last had a Pretzel beginning in which, on exit, the lady was led out R to L to full extension; then drawn in through two turns to a full wrap (R releases at the appropriate point but remains at the lady's rotating waist for guidance and support); and finally the L comes over to support the lady's back. Now comes the seducer droppy bit in which teach says lower the lady whilst bending the L and keep the R straight (ladies warned NOT to lift their leg).

BUT, I have gradually found over the weeks, months, that for me, seducery moves feel much better and more stable if I twist A/C somewhat whilst lowering the lady; during which, I feel, both legs are bending more or less equally. So good was it feeling in class that I ventured it in freestyle with an occasional partner, and to my surprise it all worked surprisingly smoothly. And that's the object of the exercise, isn't it?

Coincidently, because it was raining this afternoon, I was reading through Gadget's "Workshop; Moves, Moves, Moves" where, on page 6, he mentions whilst discussing dips and seducers, " a little twist to the left".

[Beowulf]

I've just read Gadgets "Moves, Moves moves" (great btw G-Man!) and I''ve seensome of these moves being performed on the dance floor and have to say they look great, but I thought they were more an intermediate / advanced move. I mean, they have the serious potential of hurting the partner or the lead.. or both. However, the end result is fantastic and I cannot wait until I'm of good enough level and been taught these to try some out.

btw Whitebeard..I think Gadget has another spelling mistake.. What I THINK he meant was "a Little TWIT to the left" probably referring to me.. hehe

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by Beowulf1970

... I mean, they have the serious potential of hurting the partner or the lead.. or both.

Really?
Are we talking about the "Moves, moves, moves" document or dips/drops/seducers?

In m,m,m; it's only the basic moves that are advised to be played about with and there is a big disclaimer/warning about seducers. The only harm from doing the unexpected moves and variants can come from two sources: Lead trying to force the follower or follower trying to anticipate and finish a move when the lead goes against it. Both can be resolved by lowering the tensile strength in the connection (ie it 'breaks' and seperates easier)

In d,d,s; most potential harm is from the follower anticipating and throwing themselves into it - not giving the lead a chance to prepare/brace. {Of course the lead can create a lot of potential danger as well by trying to throw followers into these moves rather than leading them, and trying to force a lead onto a follower who dosn't know/want to do one}

Potential can be minimised.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by firefly

I realise this is probably the stupidest/most basic of beginner's questions

Not at all. As you will have seen from the replies other people have asked it. Feel free to ask any questions, we were all beginners once and we are all still learning and still have questions.

There are lots of experienced dancers on here who are friendly, helpful and informed, so don't worry about asking.

[firefly]

Of course I should have realised the question had been asked before. I just didn't realise it had been asked so often!

Thanks for the technical answers and the links; I think I'm going to be spending even more time avoiding work for a while!

Thanks Lynn; I'm sure there are plenty more basic questions for me to ask, but am rather reassured that no-one has actually laughed at me

[LMC]

Firefly, if you love us, just DON'T ask about First Move footwork, OK?

it's step back RIGHT

Discussing things endlessly is the raison d'etre of many people on here, thank you for giving us another opportunity to do so.

(On a serious note: even if a discussion has already been had several times, new people bring new stuff to it - carry on - wake up an old thread if you can, if you can't find one, then just start another - people can always post links )

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by LMC

Discussing things endlessly is the raison d'etre of many people on here, thank you for giving us another opportunity to do so.

We have people here who can talk the hind legs off a donkey. We can even supply the talking donkey...

[Juju]

I'm very relieved to read this thread. I thought it was just me!

[straycat]

Originally Posted by DavidB

We have people here who can talk the hind legs off a donkey.

But only you can persuade it to go for a walk afterwards...