[ SPOILER THREAD ] Deathly hallows discussion.

[Beowulf]

As the title of this thread states.. don't read this thread if you've not finished the latest Harry Potter book "The deathly hallows"

Here we can discuss various aspects of the book, it's plot and ending without spoiling it for anyone else.

I'm now going to leave a fair bit of white space so you don't accidentally see the spoiler posts below.














Right On with the discussion!

[Dreadful Scathe]

ive only read the last page - and he seems to still be alive - ah well , Im slightly dissapointed

ill actually read the thing soon

[Beowulf]

I finished this book on Saturday night and I did really enjoy it. It was a much darker book than the previous ones.. the words "Blood bath" spring to mind.

Killing off Mad Eye Moody at the start was a bit of a shock. he's what I would call the "military" wing of the Order of the Phoenix. The bit with Harry's wand automatically defending itself.. it wasn't fully explained .. well ok it WAS .. sort of ... as a side effect of the bond between Harry and Voldermort.

I did find the end.. the final battle between Harry and Voldermort passed a little quickly. Sure there was the huge pitched battle at Hogwarts and all the notable deaths there. But the actual battle between good and evil.. seemed to pass very quickly. in the space of one or two lines of text actually.

I actually missed the bit where Voldermorts spell backfired.. One second they have wands drawn and the next Voldy's gone Moldy! What? what did I miss.. since when did the disarming spell kill??

That was a little "odd" as well. Using a disarming spell when he knew this was the last and most important battle? Surely he didn't know it would cause the unforgivable curse to rebound. So what was he going to do.. "I've got the elder wand now b*gger off and leave us alone?" Of course, it would never do for Harry to use the killing curse now would it?

all in all a good read.. even if at times it read more like a camping book than a harry potter novel.

"Five go mad with wands"

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by Beowulf1970

I finished this book on Saturday night and I did really enjoy it. It was a much darker book than the previous ones.. the words "Blood bath" spring to mind.

Gratuitious blood bath, at that. Particularly Lupin/Tonks - felt like JK got near the end, remembered she'd said some important people would die in HP7, so quickly killed off a couple of people off stage.

Killing off Mad Eye Moody at the start was a bit of a shock. he's what I would call the "military" wing of the Order of the Phoenix.

Only thing is, we've never really "met" Moody (just Barty-Moody), so I didn't really care. Hedwig going (and in such a banal way) was more of a shock I think.

I did find the end.. the final battle between Harry and Voldermort passed a little quickly. Sure there was the huge pitched battle at Hogwarts and all the notable deaths there. But the actual battle between good and evil.. seemed to pass very quickly. in the space of one or two lines of text actually.

Worse, the actual quality of writing at that point seems to fall apart. If someone had leaked the paragraph where V dies, I think everyone would have scoffed and said it was obviously stolen from a fan-fic. Really poor.

I actually missed the bit where Voldermorts spell backfired.. One second they have wands drawn and the next Voldy's gone Moldy! What? what did I miss.. since when did the disarming spell kill??

It didn't. Voldypants AK spell rebounded. Like it does every time he tries to AK Harry Potter. You'd think he'd have wised up!

That was a little "odd" as well. Using a disarming spell when he knew this was the last and most important battle? Surely he didn't know it would cause the unforgivable curse to rebound. So what was he going to do.. "I've got the elder wand now b*gger off and leave us alone?" Of course, it would never do for Harry to use the killing curse now would it?

I think your last sentence is the operative one here.

all in all a good read.. even if at times it read more like a camping book than a harry potter novel.

To me, the biggest problem with this book is the amount of stuff that happens because JK Rowling needed it to happen. Like Harry, Ron and Hermione hiding in the middle of the woods and just happening to overhear Dean Thomas et. al. discussing vital information. I think you can tell she was writing with half a mind on the screenplay as well.

Plot wise, I thought she really fitted a lot of things together very neatly; I was particularly impressed that she not only made Harry a horcrux and avoided having to kill him off, and made it make sense. But I really wish she hadn't pulled the "Hollows" out of nowhere for the last book. Other than the "uber-wand", the other 2 hollows didn't really seem relevant to the plot. And (like the time-turner that JK had to destroy from future books because it is so disruptive to logic) the whole idea of a "uber-wand" has a lot of problems once you look at it closely. And the "uber-wand" doesn't really seem necessary; as other's have pointed out, at the time of the final duel, V has already lost; he's mortal, his henchmen are dead or running, and he's completely surrounded. Even if he had killed Harry, he'd have been torn apart by spells from McGonagal et. al. within seconds.

[Jamie]

Well, I have to say I was impressed with some things but unimpressed with others...

Dobby's death made me fill with tears, something that always made me laugh was people saying "omg I cried when Dumbledore died!" or something daft like that, but my eyes actually filled up with tears when I read Dobby died!

So what was the deal with Snape? Was he a vampire?

Major thing: What was it that Snape did to gain Dumbledore's trust? Was it just that he showed remorse and that he had a thing for Lily? It wasn't the patronus because he showed DD that just before the start of book 6 (DD's withered hand).

Was Nagini actually a horcrux or was Harry her replacement horcrux unbeknown to Voldemort?

Upon finishing the book it's left me with more questions, which I'm happy about really.

What was the point of Grawp? He annoyed me so much, turns out he didn't have any major role to play. Kreacher turned out to be a nice house elf once you got to know him

Who was the one who would do magic later in life under extreme circumstances?

So many questions...

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by Jamie

So what was the deal with Snape? Was he a vampire?

Animagus, possibly. Of course, JKR said explictly that wizards can't fly, but it seems she forgot to tell Voldy and Snape that.

Major thing: What was it that Snape did to gain Dumbledore's trust? Was it just that he showed remorse and that he had a thing for Lily?

Seems so. It seems a bit stupid really, doesn't it. Although it's also implied that he doesn't have all DD's trust - something about "not telling all my secrets to someone who hangs off Voldemort's right arm". I also felt that if Snape really had gone undercover for the last 15 years solely to protect Lily's son, then I can't see him accepting DD's "the boy must die" attitude - I think you'd have seen a parting of the ways there.

Was Nagini actually a horcrux or was Harry her replacement horcrux unbeknown to Voldemort?

Yes, Nagini was a Horcrux. Or at least Voldy thought so, and he should know! It does mean there were 7 Horcruxes and so V divided his soul into 8, not 7. The most likely explanation is Voldemort didn't realise he'd made one when he failed to AK baby Harry.

What was the point of Grawp? He annoyed me so much, turns out he didn't have any major role to play.

Surely annoying you so much was a role all by itself?

Who was the one who would do magic later in life under extreme circumstances?

This is the most common question I'm seeing post HP7, and I don't think anyone has an answer. JKR changed her mind, I'm guessing.

[Caro]

Originally Posted by Beowulf1970

The bit with Harry's wand automatically defending itself.. it wasn't fully explained .. well ok it WAS .. sort of ... as a side effect of the bond between Harry and Voldermort.

yeah I thought this was a bit far fetched... I thought it was Snape who did that to protect Harry, from behind Voldemort. I think I liked that version better.

Originally Posted by Beowulf1970

I actually missed the bit where Voldermorts spell backfired.. One second they have wands drawn and the next Voldy's gone Moldy! What? what did I miss.. since when did the disarming spell kill??

That was a little "odd" as well. Using a disarming spell when he knew this was the last and most important battle? Surely he didn't know it would cause the unforgivable curse to rebound. So what was he going to do.. "I've got the elder wand now b*gger off and leave us alone?" Of course, it would never do for Harry to use the killing curse now would it?

I think Harry knew that the wand, of whom he was the true master, would not kill him. Therefore he had nothing to fear from Voldemort, and chose to disarm him? He knew he had to kill him I think, so may be the second spell would have been the AK one. Although I don;t think he'd have been able to perform it (being merciful and all).

Originally Posted by David Franklin

Gratuitious blood bath, at that. Particularly Lupin/Tonks - felt like JK got near the end, remembered she'd said some important people would die in HP7, so quickly killed off a couple of people off stage.

Agreed. Such important characters dying, you'd expect to 'be there' when it happens. Didn't quite realise at first (I was reading quickly and very late at night...).

Originally Posted by David Franklin

To me, the biggest problem with this book is the amount of stuff that happens because JK Rowling needed it to happen. Like Harry, Ron and Hermione hiding in the middle of the woods and just happening to overhear Dean Thomas et. al. discussing vital information. I think you can tell she was writing with half a mind on the screenplay as well.

Indeed, that particular bit was poor I thought. Very far-fetched again.

Originally Posted by David Franklin

I really wish she hadn't pulled the "Hollows" out of nowhere for the last book. Other than the "uber-wand", the other 2 hollows didn't really seem relevant to the plot.

On the contrary, I thought this was very good. I think you need a whole knew enigma in the book otherwise it's just a bunch of stuff that need to happen as you said. Plus again it illustrates the internal struggle between power / glory (Harry being tempted to collect all 3 objects and therefore become the master of death, which as Dumbledore explains, means being invicible to most people; instead of carrying on with the tedious horcrux quest).


Stuff I was sort of disappointed not to see / learn more about:
- the fact that V drank unicorn blood to survive in book 1
- the arch with the veil in the dept of mysteries
- Harry's family from his father's side (how come he had no other relative than Petunia?), although we learn he's a descendant of Ignotus Pewerell (sorry can't remember spelling).
- I thought Snape's part was really small, I would have liked to see a face to face with Harry, or at least McGonagall (where he explains what he's done).

Don't get me wrong, I loved the book though.

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Well, I have to say I was impressed with some things but unimpressed with others...

Dobby's death made me fill with tears, something that always made me laugh was people saying "omg I cried when Dumbledore died!" or something daft like that, but my eyes actually filled up with tears when I read Dobby died!

Agreed - Dobby's was the best handled death - Lupin / Tonks / Fred - I loved those characters, but the way the deaths were handled just didn't feel ... real ... had very little impact for me. They almost felt glossed over.

Originally Posted by Jamie

So what was the deal with Snape? Was he a vampire?

Major thing: What was it that Snape did to gain Dumbledore's trust? Was it just that he showed remorse and that he had a thing for Lily? It wasn't the patronus because he showed DD that just before the start of book 6 (DD's withered hand).

I'm assuming it was the rather dangerous role he assumed, the manner in which he conducted it, and Dumbledore's insight into his character. Snape would never ever forgive V. for what he did to Lily.

Originally Posted by Jamie

Was Nagini actually a horcrux or was Harry her replacement horcrux unbeknown to Voldemort?

The former. Harry was the 'extra' horcrux that voldy didn't know he'd made.

It felt to me ... that the ending was rushed - the last battle, the aftermath...
Maybe she was just desperate to get it over and done with.

I'd also like to have known a little more about what happened just after - whether Harry & pals redid their final year, Harry / Ginny's reunion, even down to what profession Harry and co took on (or did I miss something there?)

etc.

Overall though - I was impressed. Wonder what she'll be working on next?

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Caro

Stuff I was sort of disappointed not to see / learn more about:
- the fact that V drank unicorn blood to survive in book 1
- the arch with the veil in the dept of mysteries
- Harry's family from his father's side (how come he had no other relative than Petunia?), although we learn he's a descendant of Ignotus Pewerell (sorry can't remember spelling).
- I thought Snape's part was really small, I would have liked to see a face to face with Harry, or at least McGonagall (where he explains what he's done).

Don't get me wrong, I loved the book though.

I keep hearing this but to me, that doesn't make sense... Voldemort has a new body after being resurrected in book 4... Remember when V drank unicorn blood, he was in the body of Quirrel.. I'm thinking that the blood only affects the body, not the soul?

[Stuart M]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Dobby's death made me fill with tears, something that always made me laugh was people saying "omg I cried when Dumbledore died!" or something daft like that, but my eyes actually filled up with tears when I read Dobby died!

Don't worry - let's all get together at 3pm tomorrow and start thinking "Doctor".

[Jamie]

Also, what was Dudley's worst memory? (OoTP - Dudley Demented)

[Beowulf]

So hands up who thinks there'll be a series of books later

HP:TNG !!

following Harry/Ginny's, Ron/Hermione's and Draco's Children though the school??

At least then it would tell us... "What does Harry do now?.. He's not a teacher otherwise they would have mentioned that at the end too, is the order of the phoenix now disbanded? Have the Dursley's all died? Are rons parents Retired? or still mourning over the death of one of their sons? What's the other son doing? is he still in the joke business or has he cast of childish things and become a lawyer??

I'm sure she'll write another book later.. perhaps a whole new series.. or a TV spin off ? Who knows.. but she's certainly not closed any doors.

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by Beowulf1970

Are rons parents Retired? or still mourning over the death of one of their sons?

Sadly, Molly Weasley's finest moment was when she got into a power loader and told Bellatrix to

Get away from her, you b1tch!

Since then, she starred in a movie that never happened, died, was resurrected and appeared in another movie than never happened.

Distraught, Arthur Weasley turned to the muggle dark arts and became a leading expert on atomic weapons. He became notorious as a pundit for the Daily Prophet; particular for his catchphrase when discussing suspected death-eater strongholds - "Nuke them from orbit - it's the only way to be sure".

[Caro]

Originally Posted by Jamie

IRemember when V drank unicorn blood, he was in the body of Quirrel.. I'm thinking that the blood only affects the body, not the soul?

Can't remember exactly now... but no I thought it talked about a 'cursed life', which I didn't take to mean body, but soul.

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Caro

Can't remember exactly now... but no I thought it talked about a 'cursed life', which I didn't take to mean body, but soul.

Originally Posted by Firenze the friendly exposition centaur

... you will have but a half-life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips

but...

he says shortly after, on being asked by Harry whether death wouldn't be better:

Originally Posted by Firenze the friendly exposition centaur

It is, unless all you need is to stay alive long enough to drink something else -- something that will bring you back to full strength and power -- something that will mean you can never die.

Referring, of course, to the Elixir of Life. I presume though, that when he's restored in book 4(?), that has a similar effect, and fixes the unicorn's blood problem. I do wonder if the blood accounted for his subhuman appearence though....

[purpleheather]

Originally Posted by straycat264