July Books - Brick Lane and Olivia Joules

[Divissima]

Lawks! Better get on with it then Gordy is raring to get going. Have my books in mind so will get posting.

[Divissima]

Is this a bad time to admit I'm so behind - I haven't even started Brick Lane yet

[Emma]

Originally Posted by Divissima

Is this a bad time to admit I'm so behind - I haven't even started Brick Lane yet

Aww don't worry No-one said you *had* to read it. Anyway you've got Aaaaaaages yet.

(I'll expect to see a copy sticking out of your bad on Saturday! )

[John S]

I read Brick Lane a few months ago - really worth the read, very touching.

I much preferred the London-based parts to the Dhaka sequences from the sister. My favourite character was probably the husband Chanu, with his aspirations and self-belief constantly knocking up against the reality of his non-recognition and lack of achievement - just like my dancing, actually...........

[jivecat]

Well, we've had the discussion. Went very well, especially considering that 4 of us had only read half the book.

Could that be construed as a flaw, that we didn't seem to miss the second half of the book? I am certainly, by page 219, beginning to long for something else to happen. Or is it a strength that the first half alone provided us with lots to talk about?

It was felt that the main characters were portrayed in a deep and well-rounded way. I personally feel that the depiction of Nazneen's state of mind and journey towards self-determination is very moving and one of the major strengths of the novel.

There was some talk of stereotyping. One person felt that Chanu reminded her of the dad in "The Kumars at #42". Is arranged marriage a frequent topic among Indian/British Indian novelists? Monica Ali was presumably, (and wisely) drawing strongly on her own experiences when she wrote this novel, but did she reinforce many Western stereotypical ideas about Indian culture?

Although perhaps not the main theme of the novel there were some interesting comparisons between arranged marriage v. love match. I enjoyed the subtle interplay of the characters of Nazneen and Chanu as they adapt to their arranged marriage. Although Chanu is not presented as a very appealing character he is not a bad man and the point was made effectively that the real strength of their union lay in the shared raising of a family, mutual support and companionship, tolerance and mutual respect. And that these qualities do not depend on the idea of love as physical attraction (though hopefully they don't exclude it, either.) At the end of the novel, did you feel more or less sympathetic to the concept of arranged marriages?

Incidentally, the most moving portrayal of the chemistry in an effective marriage that I have seen was in the film "Monsoon Wedding" Anybody see it?

The character of the mother, Amma, was slightly mysterious. Did she commit suicide? I think she did. Presented as an extremely passive and traditional woman was that her only way of exerting any control over her life? Hasina chooses a different way, as does Nazneen, eventually. What choices do the younger characters make and how do they reconcile traditional and western values, if at all?

That's it so far. Sorry it sounds a bit like a GCSE script, C grade. We've only got 10 days left to discuss it now. Can't say anything about the love affair with Karim cos I, um, haven't got that far yet.

[DangerousCurves]

Did anyone else read "Olivia Joules"?

I read that one first and am now 3/4 through "Brick Lane". I'd like to finish it before I post, since my feelings about a book can change as I continue with it...

I really enjoyed "OJ" which suprised me - its author also wrote "Bridget Jones" which I hated (loved the movie though??!!). I though it was basically a good natured romp, rather than meaningful or lasting literature. The only thing that rubbed me up the wrong way was its choice of Osama Bin Laden and Al Kayheda as the terror threat. I think this was for 3 reasons...

1) It really places the book in the present, in a way that will make it date very quickly.

2) The book is so light and insubstantial, that it feels as if its trivialising a horrendous and serious issue by making use of it in this way - and the author profiting out of the situation.

3) The world situation is very complex - I don't pretend to know the truth of it - but this was a very US=good, THEM= bad view. Ok - as I said, its a romp and not very serious, but it still mildly offended. Maybe its all meant ironically... but irony can be easy to miss.

That said, the plot was fun, and some parts very well written. I liked Olivia's "Rules for Life" and may even take some of them on board!


What did anyone else think?

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by DangerousCurves

Did anyone else read "Olivia Joules"?
...

I really enjoyed "OJ" which suprised me - its author also wrote "Bridget Jones" which I hated (loved the movie though??!!).

I picked it up in Tesco's the other night and due to being rather busy haven't it finished yet. I loved the Bridget Jones books (maybe I identified with Bridget, worrying thought!) the diary style really appealed to me. Like you DC I am finding Olivia Joules light and entertaining enough, but I don't think I will read it many times, wheras I go back for a chuckle through the Bridget books every so often.

Is it just me or does it read almost more like a screenplay than a novel?

(Not that I have ever actually read a screenplay).

[Emma]

I thoroughly enjoyed OJ - As DC says it's hardly challenging reading, but I found it a thoroughly enjoyable romp, and rather liked the departure from classic 'Chick Lit' into a Bondian romp. It's a good and as far as I am aware original move.The book really reminded me of the Anthony Horowitz series of Alex Rider books (perfectly aimed at the young male reluctant reader, though my friend's 11y old girls love 'em too), though it was loaded with enough girly detail to keep the Chick Lit crowd happy, I would think.

I agree that the Osama Bin Laden slant is likely to date the book very quickly, though I can see it was the obviousl 'villan' for the time of writing. If anything I was disappointed by spoiler ahead..!the fact that Osama Bin Laden DID actually turn up in the story eventually. Rather TOO obvious, I thought. I also agree that using OBL as the villain is perhaps a little dubious, in a PC sort of way, but then I guess *any* topical villain would have been equally arguable against (though has anyone written a novel with Thatcher as arch villainess yet? Apart from Ben Elton? )

Anyway all in all I found it a thoroughly enjoyable read, I imagine it'd be a great beach read (personally I read it in the garden!)...and being a girly type, I liked the happy ending too *hee hee*

Oh yeah and I *love* the rules for living...so much so that I posted them in my online diary about 6 months ago

[Lynn]

Thanks for putting the 'spoiler alert' in - I'm only halfway through reading the book so I stopped reading your post at that point and will go back and look at it when I have finished the book!

[DangerousCurves]

Originally Posted by Emma

rather liked the departure from classic 'Chick Lit' into a Bondian romp.

Yes! Yes! That's a perfect description... it was rather like a girly James Bond novel! I'd quite enjoy seeing it turn into a series... though I would prefer a SMERSH type villain next time...

[Sylph]

Originally Posted by DangerousCurves

Did anyone else read "Olivia Joules"?

I read that one first and am now 3/4 through "Brick Lane". I'd like to finish it before I post, since my feelings about a book can change as I continue with it...

I'm on P239 "Brick Lane" but I'm off to BB tomorrow so will post a few thoughts about what I'm enjoying.

Firstly, agree the characters have a "real" feel to them. It's particularly interesting to see them develop as a result of their life experiences and Caroline Ali seems strong on the idea that early experience is all important in constraining later development.

Aspects of the cultural divides I think are well handled, alongside the continuing theme of gender as a barrier to understanding and communication. l thought it was interesting the way Lovely is contrasted with Hasina in her anxieties about the survival of her self-image while Hasina's concerns have been centred on physical survival.

That's as far as I've gone.

I'm sorry to have missed the 4-way discussion

Next month can we agree a "read by" date so that we know when to aim for?

[DangerousCurves]

Finished Brick Lane now... and enjoyed it - in a very different way to the Olivia Joules novel. I think this IS one that people will be reading, and re-reading for a long time to come.

I really liked the contrast between the two sisters - the terse, constrained, grammatically correct letters from Nasneen contrasted so painfully with the exhuberent semi-literate ones from Hasina, which with just a few words conveyed moods and emotions, and were so visually evocative.

SPOILER AHEAD.....

Having already posted on my mild irritation with the Olivia Joules use of September 11, I found myself feeling very differently when the same incident was also used in Brick Lane. I think that because of the weight given to issues of race, immigration, discrimination etc. in this book, it did not feel either disrespectful or frivolous in context. In fact, had I read Brick Lane first, I think I would have felt even more irritated with the Olivia Joules over-simplification of issues.

I think this was a really good choice of contrasting books...with more of a point of convergence than I was expecting!

Roll on next month!

[Lynn]

Spoiler alert...

Finished it on Fri. It improved on me a bit as I read on - I liked it better when she was actually getting to be a spook instead of just imagining she was one. I agree with the comments on the background 'terror threat' situation - it does trivialise it and it would have worked surely with an imaginary background (though I notice Helen Fielding does have her characters interact with 'real' people - which would make the putting Bridget - Colin Firth interview in the Edge of Reason film a bit difficult!).

The other problem for me was Olivia's strange mix of 'experienced world traveller' and slightly dippy female, it didn't quite fit. But I enjoyed the book and I did like the 'Rules for living' concept - and yes, the happy ending too!

[Emma]

Originally Posted by Lynn

The other problem for me was Olivia's strange mix of 'experienced world traveller' and slightly dippy female, it didn't quite fit.

I know what you mean - though if I remember correctly Helen Fielding wrote the book using her own personal experience...

Which reminds me that if people enjoyed Olivia Joules then it's worth reading Helen Fielding's first novel - 'Cause Celeb' which is about a woman who goes to Africa to work with famine victims (if I remember rightly, read it a long time ago!!). I personally liked this book a lot more than the Bridget Jones ones

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Emma

I know what you mean - though if I remember correctly Helen Fielding wrote the book using her own personal experience...

Which reminds me that if people enjoyed Olivia Joules then it's worth reading Helen Fielding's first novel - 'Cause Celeb' which is about a woman who goes to Africa to work with famine victims (if I remember rightly, read it a long time ago!!). I personally liked this book a lot more than the Bridget Jones ones

Thanks - I'll read that. I have a friend who is an experienced traveller but still does dippy things like be persuaded to follow a strange man through an Egyptian market... (She could easily write a book about her experiences!). I have travelled in Africa a little bit myself so should enjoy Cause Celeb.

[Emma]

It's been a while since I read the book, and I just lent it to someone else so these are rather aged impressions

On the whole I enjoyed the book. I spent quite a lot of time trying to remember what other book involving arranged marriage/Asian culture it reminded me of (and I still haven't remembered, irritatingly). White Teeth (Zadie Smith), maybe?

I thought the characters were well drawn. I agree with John that Chanu was one of the most engaging characters in the book. I also liked Nazeem's sister (the name's gone!) and in a way I might have preferred to have her experiences as the core of the book. My favourite character was Nazeem's daughter though, in her salwar kameez as near to black as possible Thiking about it, the interplay between the family of four was beautifully written, and probably the best thing about the book for me.

I also had a point in the book where I only continued reading because I knew Nazeem was going to have an affair with someone, and I wanted to see how it occurred. I confess I found the whole book everso sliightly worthy, and though it kept my (appalingly short) attention span to the end, I kindof only finished it to find out how it all ended.

So...though I have lent the book to someone else which has to indicate I thought it good enough to be read, I guess at the end of the day it really didn't move me very much, and I am slightly puzzled that it's such a bestseller.

[John S]

Originally Posted by Emma

I spent quite a lot of time trying to remember what other book involving arranged marriage/Asian culture it reminded me of (and I still haven't remembered, irritatingly). White Teeth (Zadie Smith), maybe?

Yes - I'm reading them the other way round - halfway through "White Teeth" - and I keep half-expecting the characters from Brick Lane to turn up.

Having said that, someone will probably now accuse me of mixing up Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis.