New HP - ***spoilers***

[Purple Sparkler]

Originally Posted by Groovy Dancer

I have completed the book

So whenever you think you're ready.

I shall reiterate David Franklin's question, as it's a good one:
Snape - Hero or Villain?

And also, to reiterate a previous point- what did you think about the romances in the book? Am I the only one who finds them, though satisfying, a little unrealistic for an author who claims she's all about the real emotions?

[David Franklin]

Spoiler Space
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What's happened to Harry's "power level"? Look at the Snape/Harry duel. Forget Snape's motives for the moment - what is clear is that Harry is completely outmatched. What's all that about? In previous books, Harry has been, if not Snape's equal, certainly no pushover (c.f. pensieve scene in OotP, Harry knocking Snape unconscious in PoA). Plus he holds V to a draw in GoF and holds his own against Death Eaters in the climax to OotP. Heck - in HBP he only manages to beat Malfoy due to a lucky spell he found in a book. The whole "silent spelling" thing is completely out of the blue as well - nary a hint of it in the past 5 books. (You could retcon it by claiming "yeah, but if someone did a silent spell in a prevous book we wouldn't have known about it", but it's still a retcon).

Let's face it, on current standing, Harry has about as much chance of completing the tasks of book 7 as Hermione has of failing her NEWTs!

[Lounge Lizard]

I agree with David
Harry was a bit hopeless in this book
looking a snape, Voldormot etc. at Harry's age his magical skills are poor compared to theirs at the same age
he was way out of his depth in the cave and if Dumbledore thought so highly of his skills why disable him when he is so so weak
romance was predictable, but it is a kids book (well originaly)

I would have expected harry to become a far greater wizard in this book, preparing him for the final duel

Who is going to turn him into a powerfull enough wizard to face the inevitable battle
the Ginny thing............like lord V wont know he can get to harry via her!
still a good read tho
peter

[Brummie Paul]

IMO the ending is a complete red herring. This is an elaborate hoax perpetrated by two powerful wizards ( Dumbledore and the half Blood prince) to put them in positions where they can do the most good in defeating the Dark Wizards ie one in a position to work undetected behind the scenes and the other esconsed and thoroughly trusted in the opposition camp.

What alerted me to this at first was the "flying" avada kedavra - previously victims have just dropped dead on the spot- and the freezing of Harry only makes sense if it was to stop him interfering and also to have him as a witness to what appeared to have happened.

There are lots of other clues in the text which support the above contention which I can direct people to if they are interested.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by Brummie Paul

IMO the ending is a complete red herring. This is an elaborate hoax perpetrated by two powerful wizards ( Dumbledore and the half Blood prince) to put them in positions where they can do the most good in defeating the Dark Wizards ie one in a position to work undetected behind the scenes and the other esconsed and thoroughly trusted in the opposition camp.

What alerted me to this at first was the "flying" avada kedavra - previously victims have just dropped dead on the spot- and the freezing of Harry only makes sense if it was to stop him interfering and also to have him as a witness to what appeared to have happened.

There are lots of other clues in the text which support the above contention which I can direct people to if they are interested.

go on then - what are the other clues?

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by Brummie Paul

There are lots of other clues in the text which support the above contention which I can direct people to if they are interested.

Of course, JKR is good at putting out misleading clues as well. You can definitely use the text to argue this either way. I think one strong argument lies outside the text - in what Terry Pratchett calls narrativum - i.e. this is what happens because it makes a good story. And in fact, the author herself says at The Leaky Cauldron:

JKR: Yeah, well, I think if you take a step back, in the genre of writing that I'm working in, almost always the hero must go on alone. That's the way it is, we all know that, so the question is when and how, isn't it, if you know anything about the construction of that kind of plot.

ES: The wise old wizard with the beard always dies.

JKR: Well, that's basically what I'm saying, yes.

Of course, that could all be misdirection too. I'm guessing we will get some kind of postscript for Dumbledore, maybe as a portrait or having left some pensieve memories behind. But we will not get the flesh-and-blood wizard who could put fear into Voldemort. Book 7 is Harry's story, not Dumbledore's.

Finally, IMHO, the strongest argument that DD is really dead is... Gandalf!. She'd be innundated by claims of ripping off LotR if she brought him back in book 7. (Either that or she'd get all the fundamentalists saying she's setting up Dumbledore as a Christ analogue...)

[Brummie Paul]

I think David makes some good points and obviously at the end of the day we are all at JKR's mercy as to what really has and will happen. I must admit that
I was not aware of the interview to which you refer and it does make interesting reading.

Rather than list the clues to support my theory here, I have found a website which has picked up on the some of the same clues as me and quite a few besides and seems to be well researched and argued:

http://dumbledoreisnotdead.com

After reading through that site, I would be surprised if anyone remains entirely convinced that Dumbledore is dead and that Snape is a Death Eater

[Purple Sparkler]

New theory posited by a friend of mine:


Harry is an unintentional horcrux.

Your thoughts?

[Tessalicious]

Originally Posted by Purple Sparkler

New theory posited by a friend of mine:


Harry is an unintentional horcrux.

Your thoughts?

Now that's a theory, which would explain some of the transfer of powers like parselmouth, as well as explaining a possible extra dimension to 'neither can live while the other survives'. But surely V had made his six horcruces by the time he tried to kill Harry, which is why he survived the reversal of the curse, and I think the significance of a 7-part soul has ben played up too much for it not to be the case.

But then again this is Harry Potter, anything could happen...

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by Purple Sparkler

New theory posited by a friend of mine:


Harry is an unintentional horcrux.

Your thoughts?

Lots of plausible evidence for this one - and not just in HBP. I don't recall exact wording, but there have been comments about "something of Voldemort" ending up in Harry in earlier books. But on the other hand, Dumbledore says nothing of the kind, and heads off in a different direction (Nagini). Are we supposed to trust DD's wisdom or not? [Though I note DD's choice in DADA teachers reminds me of the HR capabilities of a certain small green Jedi].

If we ignore that small problem, the theory I quite "like" artistically is that Harry was a horcrux as a result of when V tried to AK Harry, but that part of V's soul was freed during the resurrection in GoF. As that would be a really nice explanation for the "glint of triumph" we've all been wondering about; up 'til then, DD has been struggling with the worry that H would have to die if V was to be defeated. Not terribly well supported by the text-ev, unfortunately...

[Purple Sparkler]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

Not terribly well supported by the text-ev, unfortunately...

But then again, we do know JK's penchant for bringing in things with NO text-ev. Like, oh let's pluck an example out of the air- the identity of the Half Blood Prince?

[Lounge Lizard]

Originally Posted by Purple Sparkler

New theory posited by a friend of mine:


Harry is an unintentional horcrux.

Your thoughts?

If he was V would know about itand it would have been an easier route back for V when he capturd or cornered Harry in earlier books.

There has been obvious simmilarities with the jedi Force in HP books, but will no.7 be more like the Matrix with 'the chosen one' finaly developing skill to equal V
or will he inherit the power of DD, Sirius, His parents etc. (hope not)

also there is the locked room in the DoM which contains a force more Wonderfull & more terrible than death, Human intelligence, the forces of nature, - it is the power within that room that harry posseses - so perhaps Harry needs to enter this room to 'unlock' this power - I expected to hear more of this power in HBP, but not a mention.
peter

[LMC]

Originally Posted by Purple Sparkler

But then again, we do know JK's penchant for bringing in things with NO text-ev.

And bloopers are creeping in ...

e.g. the whole silent spell thing. Hermione only survived Dolohov's curse in OotP because he'd been silenced...

Does not compute

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by Purple Sparkler

New theory posited by a friend of mine:


Harry is an unintentional horcrux.

Your thoughts?

Okay, have finally finished the book (I know, I am a very slow reader!!!)

I don't think that Harry is a Horcrux because DD has said before that Harry has 'too much love' in him for V to be able to be near him.

Another controversal theory that I have heard is that Harry is decended from Godric Gryffindor and that V was trying to get an heirloom from the Potter family when he killed them.

[Trish]

Originally Posted by NewKid

And bloopers are creeping in ...

The other big Blooper I noticed was that Harry couldn't see the flying horse things at the end of the Goblet of Fire, but he could see them at the start of Order of the Phoenix, this doesn't make sense, as he had already seen Cedric Diggory killed by Voldemort at the end of Goblet of Fire. (Sorry bad memory - I've forgotten the names for everything - have I got that right? - hope this makes sense!)

[DaveD]

Originally Posted by Brummie Paul

IMO the ending is a complete red herring. This is an elaborate hoax perpetrated by two powerful wizards ( Dumbledore and the half Blood prince) to put them in positions where they can do the most good in defeating the Dark Wizards ie one in a position to work undetected behind the scenes and the other esconsed and thoroughly trusted in the opposition camp.

What alerted me to this at first was the "flying" avada kedavra - previously victims have just dropped dead on the spot- and the freezing of Harry only makes sense if it was to stop him interfering and also to have him as a witness to what appeared to have happened.

There are lots of other clues in the text which support the above contention which I can direct people to if they are interested.

I'm almost persuaded by the "Dumbledore isn't dead" theory but only because JK seems to have painted herself into a corner otherwise. As others have pointed out, HP isn't sufficeintly powerful or experienced to take on Voldemort (esp if Snape really is on his side) so JK has to find a convincing way for HP to magically(?) acquire power and experience beyond his years or for some outher powerful wizard to come out of the woodwork to help him in his quest.

The "almost" is because it would be a bit corny for Dumbledore to reappear (like Gandalf) and because JK seems to have painted a convincing picture of Dumbledore dead as a parrot. (Fawkes, Picture in study etc)

Like others, I was a bit diasppointed with this book as it seems to be just a warm up for the final chapter - I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens next.

Dave

[Purple Sparkler]

Originally Posted by Trish

The other big Blooper I noticed was that Harry couldn't see the flying horse things at the end of the Goblet of Fire, but he could see them at the start of Order of the Phoenix, this doesn't make sense, as he had already seen Cedric Diggory killed by Voldemort at the end of Goblet of Fire. (Sorry bad memory - I've forgotten the names for everything - have I got that right? - hope this makes sense!)

JK has been asked about Harry not being able to see the Thestrals before- she says that it's because it would have taken a while for him to really process what death means, having seen it- that you have to understand what you've seen before you see the Thestrals.

Which is a very good excuse, I think.

[Tessalicious]

Originally Posted by Purple Sparkler

JK has been asked about Harry not being able to see the Thestrals before- she says that it's because it would have taken a while for him to really process what death means, having seen it- that you have to understand what you've seen before you see the Thestrals.

Which is a very good excuse, I think.

Or at least a good way of getting around the fact that there is the odd hole in her story...

[Andy McGregor]

Having waited for my daughters to finish the book I'm a bit behind. I only finished reading it yesterday. Is it my imagination or are there far less words than the last one? The book is quite fat with plenty of pages but the lines on the pages seem to spaced further apart (increased leading for the printers out there). The order of the Pheonix had 37 lines per page and the Half-Blood Prince has only 33 lines per page. And the latest book has 600 pages (of actual story) as opposed to 759 in the previous one. By a crude calculation (not taking into account chapter headings, etc) that's a reduction from 28,083 lines to 19,800!!! That means the new book is only 71% of the previous one

[Lounge Lizard]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

Having waited for my daughters to finish the book I'm a bit behind. I only finished reading it yesterday. Is it my imagination or are there far less words than the last one? The book is quite fat with plenty of pages but the lines on the pages seem to spaced further apart (increased leading for the printers out there). The order of the Pheonix had 37 lines per page and the Half-Blood Prince has only 33 lines per page. And the latest book has 600 pages (of actual story) as opposed to 759 in the previous one. By a crude calculation (not taking into account chapter headings, etc) that's a reduction from 28,083 lines to 19,800!!! That means the new book is only 71% of the previous one

someone buy that man an anorack