Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

[JiveLad]

I've always loved the JK Rowling story: her own life story (as opposed to the Harry Potter stories which are not my cup of oolong) - because of the rags to riches and her self belief.

However, I don't really support what she is doing in suing for infringement of copyright. The 'A to Z Harry Potter Lexicon' (or whatever it is called) seems to me a perfectly ok idea to me.

I assume she will win the legal battle. However, is it really so important to her?

She claims that it impacts her own plans to do a similar book - the proceeds of which would go to charity. I'm sure if she did do such a book it would still be a bestseller and anyway if she is so concerned about the charity maybe she could just give her money and time directly.

What do others think? (Any insights Barry?)

[stewart38]

Originally Posted by JiveLad

I've always loved the JK Rowling story: her own life story (as opposed to the Harry Potter stories which are not my cup of oolong) - because of the rags to riches and her self belief.

However, I don't really support what she is doing in suing for infringement of copyright. The 'A to Z Harry Potter Lexicon' (or whatever it is called) seems to me a perfectly ok idea to me.

I assume she will win the legal battle. However, is it really so important to her?

She claims that it impacts her own plans to do a similar book - the proceeds of which would go to charity. I'm sure if she did do such a book it would still be a bestseller and anyway if she is so concerned about the charity maybe she could just give her money and time directly.

What do others think? (Any insights Barry?)

I look at her and think 'give me your money'

I just need to go write a book I guess

38 Eventures in forumite land

From the information in the papers it suggest the guy has cut and pasted a lot of her material

As im the only person on this planet never to have seen any of the movies or read any of the books I cant really comment

If she is reading this can she give me some money ?

[Martin]

Originally Posted by JiveLad

I've always loved the JK Rowling story: her own life story (as opposed to the Harry Potter stories which are not my cup of oolong) - because of the rags to riches and her self belief.

However, I don't really support what she is doing in suing for infringement of copyright. The 'A to Z Harry Potter Lexicon' (or whatever it is called) seems to me a perfectly ok idea to me.

I assume she will win the legal battle. However, is it really so important to her?

She claims that it impacts her own plans to do a similar book - the proceeds of which would go to charity. I'm sure if she did do such a book it would still be a bestseller and anyway if she is so concerned about the charity maybe she could just give her money and time directly.

What do others think? (Any insights Barry?)

I have not heard the news, but she does have loads of money, and if someone wants to make money on the back of her success, she has the right (and the money) to sue.

Maybe the lexicon writer could have asked her first?

[stewart38]

Originally Posted by Martin

I have not heard the news, but she does have loads of money, and if someone wants to make money on the back of her success, she has the right (and the money) to sue.

Maybe the lexicon writer could have asked her first?

Wasnt she turn down for a loan re her first book or some small venture cira £10k ?

Im sure a google would give the answer

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by JiveLad

However, I don't really support what she is doing in suing for infringement of copyright. The 'A to Z Harry Potter Lexicon' (or whatever it is called) seems to me a perfectly ok idea to me.

Its a book filled entirely with someones elses work or is based on the ideas of someone else - for profit. Its taking the **** quite frankly and she has every right to sue, and I hope she wins.

[JiveLad]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

Its a book filled entirely with someones elses work or is based on the ideas of someone else - for profit. Its taking the **** quite frankly and she has every right to sue, and I hope she wins.

Not sure you're right there. At least, if the book is based on the web site. For example, here http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-index.html there are about 100+ essays written by different people about HP subjects.

It looks like the web site has been going about 8 years now.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by JiveLad

Not sure you're right there. At least, if the book is based on the web site. For example, here HPL: Essays - Index there are about 100+ essays written by different people about HP subjects.

It looks like the web site has been going about 8 years now.

Its a fan site, not a book. JK is not writing a fan site, but she does write books.

This is a case of people taking liberties, other fan sites have been sued for copyright infringment rather than given a blessing by the author - they should think themselves lucky they got that. But making profit from someone elses original ideas? takes the biscuit.

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

... But making profit from someone elses original ideas? takes the biscuit.

It is the way the world works. e.g. every MJ venue that makes a profit.

Isaav Asimove wote a book "My first 100 books." containing excerpts from each. If anybody else had made a book purely of excerpts like that would definitely be a breach of copyright. A book exploring the significance of his legacy that incorporated short snippets as examples could be a major work in itself, full of original insights, and for the courts to decide if it constituted a breach of copyright.

I doubt Isaac would have taken action except in the most blatant of cases. He would have been busy writing the foundations for "My first 200 books".

I hope the courts decide that AJR would be better off producing more original works and let others do the analysing, unless the work in question really is a blatant rip-off.

"You can't write this book because I might want to" does not instantly arouse my sympathy. This is something that her publisher could have turned over to a ghost writer or produced as a collaboration before now.

[Ronde!]

I love the Harry Potter books, and I appreciate Rowling's genius and creativity in the creation of the HP world.

However, I hope she does not win this case.

If the lexicon was an abridged retelling of her stories, I would support her cause. If it was even an original novel that used her characters, I would still say she has a right to sue.

However, the facts of the matter appear to be that the work in question is a reference book, *about* the Harry Potter novels. The nature of the book is therefore utterly dissimilar to the novels themselves - it provides commentary and a referential perspective about the Harry Potter novels, rather than abridging or retelling them.

In the same way that a Wikipedia article *ABOUT* "Harry Potter" doesn't infringe on Rowling's intellectual property rights, I don't believe that a reference book *about* Harry Potter is an infringement - whether the form of the reference is web-based or paper-based.

I personally believe that Rowling is upset because the lexicon preempts her own publication of a Harry Potter reference book. While it was just an online reference, it supported the sale of her books; but in print, she feels it directly competes with her.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

It is the way the world works. e.g. every MJ venue that makes a profit.

Whats original about MJ ?

Originally Posted by Ronde!

I personally believe that Rowling is upset because the lexicon preempts her own publication of a Harry Potter reference book. While it was just an online reference, it supported the sale of her books; but in print, she feels it directly competes with her.

Which it does. This lexicon is expanding the universe of someone elses very popular fictional work. Its a license to print money. If they get away with it I'm going to do my own and jump on the bandwagon before everyone else does Screw JK, shes got enough money we should seize Harry Potter and his world for ourselves

[Georgious dancer]

I'm not really sure whether I want her to win or lose, I haven't really looked into the case enough to pass comment.

However, I think if the author of the lexicon had actually asked permission I don't think she would be so miffed. I find that a bit rude, he must of thought she might have some issues over it otherwise I reckon he would have mentioned it to her!

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Georgious dancer

... However, I think if the author of the lexicon had actually asked permission I don't think she would be so miffed. I find that a bit rude, he must of thought she might have some issues over it otherwise I reckon he would have mentioned it to her!

A.J. Rowling knew about the website, she had praised it, and she had even used it in her work. She admitted that she had checked on facts on the website rather than go back and read her own works to refresh her memory.

She had used the work of those who had contributed and compiled for profit.

If the lexicon breaches copyright then the text on a website was and is a far more serious breach of copyright. It is readily and freely availiable and is easily found. Being itself searchable and freely copyable it is more useful than a book. It is very late to be calling "foul".

If AJR does produce her own lexicon who can say that she will not have benefited from her prior exposure to the website?

The judge has urged both parties to settle out of court. AJR could get her authoritive work done in a fraction of the time if she took on the lexicon's creator as a collborator.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

A.J. Rowling knew about the website, she had praised it, and she had even used it in her work. She admitted that she had checked on facts on the website rather than go back and read her own works to refresh her memory.

If someone wants to compile info on someone else's fictional world and characters on a website and the author is ok with it - then fine. I fail to see how that has ANYTHING to do with publishing books, something the author is very likely to do herself, having, you know , a past history in that area . Can't people come up with their OWN ideas for books ?

I think JK would be better off withdrawing her goodwill and forcing the web site to shut down as well to be honest.

[Ronde!]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

This lexicon is expanding the universe of someone elses very popular fictional work. Its a license to print money. If they get away with it I'm going to do my own and jump on the bandwagon before everyone else does Screw JK, shes got enough money we should seize Harry Potter and his world for ourselves

Uh, DS, I shouldn't be able to sue someone because they're writing a book that I would like to publish in the future myself. I should only be able to sue people because they are copying work that I've *already* written.

Analysing, reviewing, providing commentary on, or talking about someone's creative work doesn't constitute an infringement of their work. Otherwise you'd have to start suing high-school book reviewers for quoting passages of Harry Potter, not to mention Cliff's Notes and all the other literary study guides out there.

The reason is that you can't copyright an IDEA... you can only copyright a WORK. J.K. may have come up the ideas in Harry Potter, but unless a book constitutes a copy of her EXISTING WORK (rather than merely an analysis of it), it can't legally infringe.

[stewart38]

Originally Posted by Ronde!

The reason is that you can't copyright an IDEA... you can only copyright a WORK. J.K. may have come up the ideas in Harry Potter, but unless a book constitutes a copy of her EXISTING WORK (rather than merely an analysis of it), it can't legally infringe.

Isnt this the point, she is saying he is copying whole chunks of her previous works without 'adding' anything

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by stewart38

Isnt this the point, she is saying he is copying whole chunks of her previous works without 'adding' anything

Presumably it is the content of the web site she is complaining about. She has had years in which to make those complaints known. All that would have happened is that the content would have been removed or changed to meet her objections.

Her fans would then have had, now, a lexicon created by them which met with the approval of AJR. It seems to me that AJR has sat back and used all of the hard work that had been put into the site for her own advantage, and at no cost. When her loyal fans have tried to put what is already availiable for free into a hardback form for others benefit and to get some recompense for all of their efforts over the years, suddenly she is stomping on them.

To me she is looking ungrateful and greedy, and perhaps short-sighted. To the fans of trivia the opportunity of comparing the author's version with an independent fans version might sell more books for both.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by Ronde!

I should only be able to sue people because they are copying work that I've *already* written.

Its a lexicon. They are. Thats the point

Analysing, reviewing, providing commentary on, or talking about someone's creative work doesn't constitute an infringement of their work. Otherwise you'd have to start suing high-school book reviewers for quoting passages of Harry Potter, not to mention Cliff's Notes and all the other literary study guides out there.

Quoting bits of something in high school is the same as wholesale copying of someones work purely for profit? What colour is the sun in your world ?

J.K. may have come up the ideas in Harry Potter, but unless a book constitutes a copy of her EXISTING WORK (rather than merely an analysis of it), it can't legally infringe.

And a lexicon is entirely original you think? you must know something the rest of us don't !

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

Presumably it is the content of the web site she is complaining about.

er..no. Shes complaining about them publishing a book. She has no complaints about fan sites - unlike many other authors. Those other authors probably realised where such acceptance led. JK probably won't be so niave in future.

When her loyal fans have tried to put what is already available for free into a hardback form for others benefit and to get some recompense for all of their efforts over the years, suddenly she is stomping on them.

Suddenly? Fan-sites are not books and none of this information is available "for free" in book form AT ALL. JK is trying to prevent publication of a book based on her original work and there is no evidence that she delayed, so "suddenly" seems like a strange word for you to use.

We know any book based on JKs ideas will make money and if the "loyal fans" require "recompense for all of their efforts over the years" they are not what i would call loyal. I'd call them cynical, exploitive and greedy.

To me she is looking ungrateful and greedy, and perhaps short-sighted. To the fans of trivia the opportunity of comparing the author's version with an independent fans version might sell more books for both.

And what will the fans next book be - "Harry Potter : The Auror Years ?" should JK hurry and get that one out before 6 other sets of fans do it first?

[bigdjiver]

The lexicon has selected quotations from each chapter which in total are a small fraction of the content of that chapter. Each quotation is matched by a similar amount of commentary. There are cross references galore to characters, spells, incidnts, etc. To me it looks like a considerable amount of valuable work in itself, as a lexicon should. An example chapter:

HPL: Reader's Guide GF31 - The Third Task

"Yeah...we've helped each other out, haven't we? We both got here. Let's just take it together."

It is worth noting that the author of the website has sought to protect copyright by preventing cutting and pasting. So I have to manually type a "notable quote" from that chaper (bottom of page) in support my view, and the judges, that there is more than enough lexicon for two.

Yeah, we've helped each other out, haven't we? We both got here. Let's just take it together.