PIN numbers

[ElaineB]

Is it me, or is there something lacking here? Over the week-end, I received my new card (wohooo!), which will ensure a higher level of security and hopefully less fraud.

I made a purchase today and was asked to type in the PIN no, which is a good idea........unless of course, as I found out, that just about everyone can see you type it in! Surely there should be some sort of cover over the top into which would give a modicum of privacy?

What do the forumites think?


Elaine

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by ElaineB

What do the forumites think?

I'll let you know just as soon as I can remember the damn PIN

[ToeTrampler]

Originally Posted by ElaineB

...just about everyone can see you type it in! Surely there should be some sort of cover over the top into which would give a modicum of privacy?
Elaine

Some places are better than others but I have generally been unimpressed on a number of occassions by this lack of privacy. The worst I feel are parrallel checkouts where you are more or less surrounded by other customers. I've seen a good few pin numbers being entered without even trying (I won't say where for obvious reasons). Now while some customers should be more careful, surely it is up to the retailer to make it possible for the average user enter the pin with a greater feeling of security. Personally, I huddle over the keypad like I'm trying to steal it - but I don't see why I should have to look stupid* to be secure.

*Before anyone says it, I realise that me not looking stupid probably involves alot more than not huddling over a keypad.

[Lindsay]

is the chip & pin thing compulsory? are all cards, eg. switch, being changed to this system?

[Dreadful Scathe]

Its compulsory as if your card expires you get a chip n pin one if you like it or not, so another year or 2 and we'll all have it (i assume switch too?). The technology is there so that cards cannot be copied, most fraud is down to 'card holder not present' fraud - over the phone etc.. or by people cloning the cards ! This is what they are trying to address with chip and pin. The less common crime, (simply because its smaller scale and requires you to be there in person) of using someone elses real card is now going to be easier, in my opinion. As people serving you in shops become accustomed to the new technology they will assume that if you know the pin, you are that person - there will be no suspicion whatsoever over who you are or any requirement for you to produce any other form of ID as there would be if you weren't very good at forging signatures. How easy is it to get a pin ? Far easier than the subsequent stealing of the card anyway, until the tabloids start with the 'fraud' stories about next easter time

[Graham]

Just to confirm, yes it is compulsory, and includes Switch (which incidentally is in any case being rebranded as Maestro), as well as Visa, Mastercard and American Express.

[Peter]

I have been using a credit card with PIN in France for 15 years. A,most all the kit is either handheld or well shielded, to minimise peeping Toms.

I cannot understand why the UK banks, card issuers and credit card machine manufacturers are proving so inept. Why don't they send a boy across the Channel for a day to make notes on this system that has worked for years, just 20 miles from Dover ...

[ElaineB]

Originally Posted by Peter

I have been using a credit card with PIN in France for 15 years. A,most all the kit is either handheld or well shielded, to minimise peeping Toms.

I cannot understand why the UK banks, card issuers and credit card machine manufacturers are proving so inept. Why don't they send a boy across the Channel for a day to make notes on this system that has worked for years, just 20 miles from Dover ...

I agree with you Peter - it is a good idea, just the manufacturers appear to be inept!

Elaine

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by ToeTrampler

Personally, I huddle over the keypad like I'm trying to steal it...

I don't have a pin for shopping yet, but I do this at cash till machines - and sort of hover my hand over it and keep my hand still while putting the numbers in with different fingers. I think it would be less obvious to someone trying to see than if you whole hand is moving with one finger typing in the numbers. Maybe it isn't!

At the moment if someone gets your card they have your card and your signature, a quick practice and they can use it. With the new system if they get your card, they also have to get your pin so maybe a bit more secure?... then again seeing you type in your pin might act as an incentive for them to try to steal your card!

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by Lynn

With the new system if they get your card, they also have to get your pin so maybe a bit more secure?... then again seeing you type in your pin might act as an incentive for them to try to steal your card!

Well it'll stop people using cards they find or steal - the need the pin number, so lets hope no one keeps the pin number in their purse too If someone does want to steal your card it is far easier to type in a pin number than it is to write a signature

[RobC]

Originally Posted by Peter

I have been using a credit card with PIN in France for 15 years. A,most all the kit is either handheld or well shielded, to minimise peeping Toms.

I cannot understand why the UK banks, card issuers and credit card machine manufacturers are proving so inept. Why don't they send a boy across the Channel for a day to make notes on this system that has worked for years, just 20 miles from Dover ...

To set the record straight, having worked for IBM on their Chip'n'Pin tilling and back-office solution which is being used by numerous highstreet retailers and Supermarkets (Morrisons to name one), it is the retailer that chooses what type of card reader to use (within guidelines of what is certified to work with the tilling software), not the banks, card issuers or card reader manufacturers. There are a number if models available from various manufacturers, some offering better privacy than others - it's down to the retailer what they choose to use. Some larger retailers even have enough clought to have customised designs made for them ....

For more info on Chip'N'Pin, you can go to http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/

[ToeTrampler]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

If someone does want to steal your card it is far easier to type in a pin number than it is to write a signature

Although I have noticed also that you don't need to be too accurate with a signature for it to be accepted either, infact some places even hand the card back at the same time as giving you the slip to sign. I've done some appalling signatures in my time and never been asked for I.D. - maybe I just have an honest face

[ElaineB]

Originally Posted by RobC

To set the record straight, having worked for IBM on their Chip'n'Pin tilling and back-office solution which is being used by numerous highstreet retailers and Supermarkets (Morrisons to name one), it is the retailer that chooses what type of card reader to use (within guidelines of what is certified to work with the tilling software), not the banks, card issuers or card reader manufacturers. There are a number if models available from various manufacturers, some offering better privacy than others - it's down to the retailer what they choose to use. Some larger retailers even have enough clought to have customised designs made for them ....

For more info on Chip'N'Pin, you can go to http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/

What a star you are Rob! Now to pen a letter to Boots!

Thanks

Elaine

[BeeBee]

Originally Posted by ToeTrampler

Although I have noticed also that you don't need to be too accurate with a signature for it to be accepted either, infact some places even hand the card back at the same time as giving you the slip to sign. I've done some appalling signatures in my time and never been asked for I.D. - maybe I just have an honest face

Yeah, I've done some appauling signatures and its never once been queried. The back strip of my Switch card was so worn out that the signature was pretty obscured, and rarely was that even questioned Then I asked for a new card, it came through as a chip and pin, and of course I kept forgetting my new pin number resulting in all sorts of delays, angry looks from the queue behind and endless apologies on my part . . . oooops.

[Dreadful Scathe]

indeed, I had a card with no signature bit for a year before I got a new card and I never had a problem using it. My signature is occasionaly squit especially if my hands are cold - I remember buying a ticket on the train and signing for it, the conductor said 'this signature looks nothing like the cards', I shrugged, so he just moved on. Look confident and you can get away with anything. So the big bonus with chip n pin is clearly that you MUST know the pin to use it, assuming they have a machine, which on trains will be around 2020 or so The only drawback is if someone else gets a hold of your pin and your card but the security of that is done to YOU .