Hybrid dances

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Gus
Question, don't you find the Lindy style dancing a bit restrictive in that it appears that it can only be used to Swing music ... or am I doing it a great disservice?

I've seen Lindy danced to hip-hop - both freestyle and in a team cabaret. It looked *very* good.

David

[Gus]

Originally posted by DavidB
I've seen Lindy danced to hip-hop - both freestyle and in a team cabaret. It looked *very* good.

Now that would be good to see .. only heard of one couple doing that kind of thing ... apparently at Beach Boogie ... waiting eagerly for the video.

[TheTramp]

Gary (from Cheltenham - can't remember a surname sorry) and Rena taught a lindy class using Clint Eastwood (Gorillaz), which wouldn't usually be known as 'lindy' music!! Was very good fun.

Of course, there's also the 'hip hop shim sham' developed by Kristy Guest (and others) which is also rather fun.

Steve

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Gus
Now that would be good to see .. only heard of one couple doing that kind of thing ... apparently at Beach Boogie ...

The dancers I saw were in New York. There were quite a few of them - all in their late teens/early twenties. The only names I can remember are two of the men - Finian Makepeace and Skye Humphries (not names you can easily forget)

The team was called "Loose Change".

I believe they were doing Hollywood style (I'm sure Swing Swing Swing or Lindsay would know more). They were certainly doing pure lead & follow, and a lot of improvisation. I'm not a big fan on Lindy (not my style or music), but I really enjoyed watching them. The biggest difference was the complete absence of choreographed moves that seem to be the staple 'intermediate' steps of most Lindy dancers in the UK. Maybe this is changing now???

David

[Gus]

Nice to know ... but then the technical question is...is this still Lindy Hop or is it Hip Hop with a bit of Lindy??? The same question comes with Ceroc, if you do a Ceroc type move to a hip-hop beat ... is it still a Ceroc move.

...... and if a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it ... et cetc etc

[SwingSwingSwing]

Originally posted by Gus
I've found Ceroc to be a very adaptable dance style ... maybe more so than the classic swing dances. (IMHO of course)

Question, don't you find the Lindy style dancing a bit restrictive in that it appears that it can only be used to Swing music ... or am I doing it a great disservice? ... honest question ... not being ODA for once.

< straying waaaay off-topic >

Gus, you can lindy to other forms of music, it just that (for me anyway) it feels so "right" doing it to swing music (or certain kinds of swing music). I wish I could explain it better but I can't. There's a feel to a good swing track that makes me want to dance and lindy hop is the dance that fits that music.

If you'd asked that question on a US lindy forum then you would probably be getting an avalache of replies arguing both for and against.

The purists argue that if you're doing lindy steps to music that isn't swing then you are not dancing Lindy Hop. Mind you the definition of what music is "swing" is another huge debating point. So, if I was dancing lindy steps to "Wade In The Water" then I wouldn't be doing Lindy Hop looking from the purist's point of view.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, you'd have people that will dance lindy to virtually anything. I've seen swing dj playlists containing tracks like "Fire" by Des'ree and "Goody Two Shoes" by Adam Ant.

I think this goes to show that Lindy is a versatile dance, more so that Ceroc (IMHO ). Lindy has more emphasis on lead and follow and listening to the music which means that you can adapt the dance to fit lots of music.

As Gus and Steve have mentioned there is Hip Hop Lindy which is starting to get a following (see http://www.hiphoplindy.com). I did see that one of the US Lindy Hop competitions this year had a Hip Hop Lindy division. There are other crossovers such as Swango (swing-tango) and Swallet (swing-ballet) (I haven't seen them so can't comment on them).


SwingSwingSwing

[TheTramp]

Nice to know ... but then the technical question is...is this still Lindy Hop or is it Hip Hop with a bit of Lindy??? The same question comes with Ceroc, if you do a Ceroc type move to a hip-hop beat ... is it still a Ceroc move.

I like to think of it as dancing. In my own 'style', there are influences from lindy, hip hop, salsa, and plenty from my own imagination. I guess I still think of myself as a jiver, but would prefer to just be dancing.

I think this goes to show that Lindy is a versatile dance, more so that Ceroc (IMHO ). Lindy has more emphasis on lead and follow and listening to the music which means that you can adapt the dance to fit lots of music.

I have to disagree with this. Ceroc is completely versatile, and more so than lindy, since there are no set foot movements to do, although, if you wish, you can include them - so you're not limited to what will fit in with a 6 beat or 8 beat style. I think that the difference is that generally - and this is a big generalisation - people who have the ability to progress in dancing tend to move towards another style, even if they often start dancing with modern jive (), and hence, are more capable to putting a lot more improvisation and imagination into their dancing. A lot of people who do modern jive tend to be there for the social aspect, and aren't really interested in going the extra mile (and in no way am I criticising this - a lot of people do any number of hobbies, and it's only the few who really want to get good at those). I have danced with many people who only do modern jive who listen to the music, and adapt, improvise and play. Personally, I enjoy dancing to just about anything you can, although, I have a preference to the more 'swingy' sort of music, and definitely to blues!

Steve

[Gus]

Originally posted by SwingSwingSwing
There are other crossovers such as Swango (swing-tango) and Swallet (swing-ballet) (I haven't seen them so can't comment on them).

Thanks for the posting ... will try to follow up .. BUT Swallet ... you're making this up right? Sounds like you and DaveB have got a conspiracy going. Can't you guys save it for April 1st

[SwingSwingSwing]

Originally posted by DavidB
The dancers I saw were in New York. There were quite a few of them - all in their late teens/early twenties. The only names I can remember are two of the men - Finian Makepeace and Skye Humphries (not names you can easily forget)

The team was called "Loose Change".

I believe they were doing Hollywood style (I'm sure Swing Swing Swing or Lindsay would know more). They were certainly doing pure lead & follow, and a lot of improvisation. I'm not a big fan on Lindy (not my style or music), but I really enjoyed watching them. The biggest difference was the complete absence of choreographed moves that seem to be the staple 'intermediate' steps of most Lindy dancers in the UK. Maybe this is changing now???

David

I'm not sure that Finian and Skye appeared in Loose Change. Finian and Skye are members of Minnie' Moochers, a NY based troupe. Loose Change are a San Francisco based team. Skye and fellow Moocher Ramona Staffield won the world Lindy hop comp this year.

From memory Minnie's Moochers do pure old-skool lindy while Loose Change are a hip hop based team. (but I could be entirely wrong on that)

As for lindy changing in the UK, I hope so. In the US over the last years, the lines between Savoy style and Smooth/Hollywood style are starting to blur as the dance moves to a more "connection" orientated base. Which I believe is good.

SwingSwingSwing

[TheTramp]

Thanks for the posting ... will try to follow up .. BUT Swallet ... you're making this up right? Sounds like you and DaveB have got a conspiracy going. Can't you guys save it for April 1st

I dunno. If you've ever seen Amir dancing, then you'd have to say his style is very Jiballgo (Jive, tango, ballet), so I think that Swallet is quite possible!

Steve

[SwingSwingSwing]

Originally posted by Gus
Thanks for the posting ... will try to follow up .. BUT Swallet ... you're making this up right? Sounds like you and DaveB have got a conspiracy going. Can't you guys save it for April 1st

Ok, the swallet term isn't entirely serious. I think it referred to a one-off workshop that look at basic ballet techniques like frame and spinning and how they could help your swing dancing.


SwingSwingSwing

[DavidB]

Originally posted by SwingSwingSwing
< straying waaaay off-topic >

It's what we do best!

I think this goes to show that Lindy is a versatile dance, more so that Ceroc (IMHO ). Lindy has more emphasis on lead and follow and listening to the music which means that you can adapt the dance to fit lots of music.

I've seen the same argument advanced for Jive, West Coast Swing and Blues. There are some differences in the leads that may make it easier in some dances than others. The speed of the music is a factor. But otherwise there is very little you can do in one dance that you can't do in another.

To me the difference is what you expect. If I ask a complete stranger to dance WCS in the US, I will expect a lot of musical interpretation/improvisation etc from my partner. When doing Jive, I'm still surprised when I see the same thing. (But 2 years ago I never saw any interpretation!) I can only describe what I've seen in Lindy - they seem to be a year or two ahead of Jive, about 5 years behind WCS, but catching up very quickly.

If anyone asks me what dance to learn, I always say it depends on the music you like.

Originally posted by Gus
you're making this up right?

The first hybrid I heard about was Swustle (WC Swing & Hustle). Swango has its own show. There is also Swalsa (Swing & Salsa).

So - should Club Jive be called 'Clive'???

Originally posted by Swing Swing Swing
I'm not sure that Finian and Skye appeared in Loose Change.

You are right. Skye & Finian were not in Loose Change, but they were dancing to anything and everything, and with everyone who wasn't watching!

David

PS Franck - should this be in a different thread?

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Gus
Thanks for the posting ... will try to follow up .. BUT Swallet ... you're making this up right? Sounds like you and DaveB have got a conspiracy going. Can't you guys save it for April 1st

No, I'd believe this (but, then, I have been known to be gullible!!)

There are hundreds of moves that you can lift straight from classical ballet to incorporate into modern jive. Even without adapting the moves at all, they wouldn't look odd. (In fact, in my slightly biased and warped opinion - classical ballet is the foundation stone of all dancing - almost everything else is a derivation ...)

Someone's already mentioned Amir Giles - probably one of the better known ballet-trained males in the jive scene. And his partner, Kate, is one of the most stunning dancers I've ever seen. The ballet influence in their dancing is obvious. And, of course, Nina Daines ... well, what can I say, except ... I WANT TO DANCE LIKE HER!!! Come to think of it, isn't Lily B ballet trained, as well? And isn't she amazing?

And how about the lady - I forget her name, but the co-founder of Ceroc in Australia - who was teaching at Hipsters a couple of weeks ago? Her routine included some kind of ronde-de-jambe and other moves that I'll regularly do in my normal ballet classes.

And, obviously, there's ballet lifts - if you're into aerials ...

Ok, so maybe the name 'swallet' wouldn't go down too well, but I for one would welcome some ballet-type instruction in jive workshops, etc. Come on, if we can get rugby players doing ballet, surely we could persuade some of our Ceroc guys???? Remember, male ballet dancers are the fittest, most supple, and most athletic of all sportsmen ...
Rachel

[Gus]

Originally posted by Rachel
Come on, if we can get rugby players doing ballet, surely we could persuade some of our Ceroc guys???? Remember, male ballet dancers are the fittest, most supple, and most athletic of all sportsmen ...
Rachel

Thats as maybe but do we really want to see all our hairy male dancers turning up in trousers so tight you can see what religion they are??

[TheTramp]

Okie Rachel. I'm up for it. Where do I sign!?!

Steve

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Gus


Thats as maybe but do we really want to see all our hairy male dancers turning up in trousers so tight you can see what religion they are??

Oh, but Yesssss!!!

[Gus]

Originally posted by Rachel
Oh, but Yesssss!!!

Naughty naughty ..... I'll tell Marc!

[TheTramp]

C'mon Gus. There's nothing wrong with looking.

Soooo......if you want to get your leotard out please (for the benefit of all the ladies).

Steve

[Gus]

Originally posted by TheTramp

Soooo......if you want to get your leotard out please (for the benefit of all the ladies).

Steve

I think not. I had enough lascivious comments after wearing my black jazz pants for the UCP workshop ... I felt SOOOO used (feigns angst very badly ... exits stage left)

[TheTramp]

I think not. I had enough lascivious comments after wearing my black jazz pants for the UCP workshop ... I felt SOOOO used

Maybe if you supply pictures, that will satisfy Rachel.....

Steve