Attitudes to Gay men...

[Holly]

Originally posted by Gus
a few female friends of mine did push their luck when they tried Blues dancing together ... they found that the female body design managed to create a few 'obstacles' to getting close enough..:sorry

I've danced with girls before and I'd wondered how Blues with another girl would work... I've tried Argentinean Tango with another girl and I can certainly see the attraction from a bloke's point of view...

As for gay men at Ceroc nights I really hope that it isn't an issue for most people - in that people don't think there's anything odd about it (rather than hoping that it doesn't happen).

Interesting thread, BTW.

Holly

[PeterL]

Originally posted by Emma
Ah, yes..big knees...

Peculiar though, isn't it, that it is totally socially acceptable for women to dance together and not men. I think it is this which puzzles me. It shouldn't be so. What's sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the gander.

I think this has a lot to do with how guys are in general. We are bought up different. For example I still remember being taught pub ettiquette rules by my dad, such as wait for your mate to return from the toilet before going yourself (this was sort of in jest) but it is true. Girls are far more comfortable being in compromising situations with other girls, such as they may share a bed on sleepovers, go to the toilet together, discuss sex and relationships in a non-bravado way.

This probably makes them more secure and it is a shame that men are not more secure, for example everyone who dances at the same venue as Gus probably knows he is heterosexual but he (maybe being a devil's advocate) worries about expressing homosexual tendencies by dancing with a tranvestite. A lot of guys would worrie about the same thing just dancing with another guy.

A saying I think applies well here is that we should be masculine enough to admit our own femininity.

not quite exactly right but the crux being if we are secure in our own sexuality and confident enough we shouldn't worry about others viewing our behaviour as effeminate or homosexual because we know better.

[Emma]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Do you have big knees Emma? I didn't notice....

Steve

Probably because we weren't dancing blues, Steve

[Gus]

Originally posted by PeterL



This probably makes them more secure and it is a shame that men are not more secure, for example everyone who dances at the same venue as Gus probably knows he is heterosexual but he (maybe being a devil's advocate) worries about expressing homosexual tendencies by dancing with a tranvestite. A lot of guys would worrie about the same thing just dancing with another guy.

First point, for a number of reasons (prediliction for wearing lycra and lots of female friends) I've been taken as being gay more times than I care to mention and have been propositioned on a fair few occaisions ... doesn't bother me.

Main point, think my previous comment didn't quite come out as hoped, thus a confused message. I'm not saying that me dancing iwth a transvestite may leed to people thinking I'm gay .... I'm saying thats it would be uncomfortable for me as it would not be something pleasant .... i.e. I like dancing with lasses because I genericaly like them and dance is a sensous and sometimes intense activity which plays on the standard female/male interaction. Whatever way you dress it up (pun not intended), dancing with a transvestite is not 'normal'.

There are differences between men and women other than the physical and these are there for good reason. To blaze forward saying that men and women should act the same when physcogicaly and physiologically they are different is being too simplistic (IMHO). Basic differences that when Men get frustrated they get angry, Women tend to be moved to tears .... does not make one strong or another weak ... its just each sex's way of dealing with a sitiation.

In a dance environment where personal space is invaded and 'intamicay' is at least alluded to, I for one would feel a lot more comfortable persuing this with a lass than a lad. If this is considered homophobic ... then I am confused..... (no change there at least)

[PeterL]

Originally posted by Gus



In a dance environment where personal space is invaded and 'intamicay' is at least alluded to, I for one would feel a lot more comfortable persuing this with a lass than a lad. If this is considered homophobic ... then I am confused..... (no change there at least)

I must admit I agree with you here and the point Iwas making it this has a lot to do with how we are bought up. Women do not have the same issues here because they are bought up differenly.

[Holly]

Originally posted by Gus

Whatever way you dress it up (pun not intended), dancing with a transvestite is not 'normal'.

Do you mean not normal (as in morally or psychologically), not normal (as in you don't see it happening) or you're not comfortable with it in your dance space?

Holly

[TheTramp]

In a dance environment where personal space is invaded and 'intamicay' is at least alluded to, I for one would feel a lot more comfortable persuing this with a lass than a lad. If this is considered homophobic ... then I am confused

I don't think that it should be considered homophobic. It's merely a situation that you don't feel comfortable with, and don't wish to be in. The same could be said about dancing with someone who nearly pulls your arm out of your socket (topical image as I'm finding it difficult to raise my right arm above shoulder height this morning thanks to some lass who decided that she really did want to be down at floor level at 4am on Sunday morning (if she was that tired, why didn't she just go to bed???)).

Steve

[Graham]

Isn't there a parallel here with blues dancing? It's been discussed at length on another thread that people need to be at a certain level of trust/intimacy to dance in this style, and that if one or both parties isn't at that level, dancing up close is going to be uncomfortable (possibly very uncomfortable).

[Dreadful Scathe]

homophobia is an overused term - everyone judges people by many, many criteria and to single a dislike or preference of a person down to one explanation; that youre homophobic is just plain daft.

Ill dance with anyone of course, but Id get annoyed at any stranger who was overly familiar - male or female (friends can be as familiar as they like ). Thats much more likely to happen with the opposite sex though - through what is perceived to be socially acceptable mainly but also a matter of sheer numbers.



on another note, heres a giraffe doing the timewarp - 50x 50 for someones avatar

[Gadget]

I think that Gus got it right when saying that dancing is about inviting your partner into your own personal space; if you are not comfortable with that person, then you can't really dance properly with them.
I also think that this discussion of predudice need not simply be applied to gay/straight, but race, religion, age, dress, style, ...etc. For example, if you are uncomfortable dancing with people that you see as younger/older than you, then is this not invoking the same sort of bias towards your selection of partner and the moves you dance ?

IMHO I think that the best dances will be with people that you feel more comfortable with and have some spark of attraction between yourselves. The best dancers have the ability to make themselves comfotable with whatever partner they dance with and make their partner feel comforable with themselves.

[Dr. Feelgood]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe

on another note, heres a giraffe doing the timewarp - 50x 50 for someones avatar

re DS's other note, this would be useful if it was possible to upload custom 'avatars' ... but it seems not be. Obviously it must have been at some point but it isn't any more. Is it just I or have others found this to be the case?

ok - back to your discussion of homophobia...

[TheTramp]

Ummm. Well, I haven't changed my avatar yet this week, but certainly last week you could upload new avatars from either the web or your own computer.

Go to your PM page, there is an option near the top to 'Edit Options'. At the bottom of that page is an option to 'Change Avatar', and at the bottom of that page, are options to upload from the web or your computer.

All avatars have a maximum dimension of 96 pixels, so you could make the giraffe a little bigger if you wanted. I suggest using Online GIF editor which works nicely for me.....

Hope that this helps....

Steve

[Emma]

I'm not dancing with a giraffe..it's not normal..I'm giraffeophobic, I admit it.

And my arms are too short, as well.

[Tiggerbabe]

Just as an aside - do you think it's possible that a same sex couple would ever win one of the championships? I've seen a few females dancing together both in the Ceroc champs in London and also at Chance2dance in Blackpool but they didn't seem to progress very far.

One of the best couples I've ever seen dancing together were the Milk Tray Boys from last year's C2D comp - I believe they were third but quite honestly I think they were good enough to win it and I wonder if they didn't just because it was 2 blokes dancing together.
I've been told though, that they danced again in London but really hammed it up, with suspenders etc and some people who were there thought that this spoiled their performance (can't say as I didn't see them in London).

I often dance as a man in the class and some women are NOT comfortable with that although the majority seem not to mind. Also if I'm at a freestyle and a good record comes on I would definitely ask another girl to dance if no-one asked me up. I've not been refused yet............

One last thought - I'm finding it quite amusing that we are all discussing gay men as my husband thinks that applies to any man who prefers dancing to standing at the bar. In fact he finds it hard to believe that some of you have girlfriends or EVEN wives.
But lets not tell him the tuth eh? Probably wouldn't let me out again.

[John S]

Originally posted by Sheena
Just as an aside - do you think it's possible that a same sex couple would ever win one of the championships? I've seen a few females dancing together both in the Ceroc champs in London and also at Chance2dance in Blackpool but they didn't seem to progress very far.

Well, the three girls won the Double Trouble (?Treble Trouble?)at the Ceroc Championships, so I guess there's a precedent!

One of the best couples I've ever seen dancing together were the Milk Tray Boys from last year's C2D comp - I believe they were third but quite honestly I think they were good enough to win it and I wonder if they didn't just because it was 2 blokes dancing together.

They were certainly good enough, and I don't know how judges differentiate between 1st/2nd/3rd at that level so I agree it is possible they were perceived to be giving out the wrong "image". Also to be fair, part of their eyecatchingness (is that a word?) was maybe the novelty factor.

I've been told though, that they danced again in London but really hammed it up, with suspenders etc and some people who were there thought that this spoiled their performance (can't say as I didn't see them in London).

It's all out there on show in the Ceroc Championship video. And as I was in the same heat and dancing beside them, it was even worse when they started to disrobe down to their underwear! Fair put me off my yo-yo. Actually, I did think it was unnecessary, and spoiled it for themselves and for those dancing at the same time. Sorry if that sounds like sour grapes.

One last thought - I'm finding it quite amusing that we are all discussing gay men as my husband thinks that applies to any man who prefers dancing to standing at the bar. In fact he finds it hard to believe that some of you have girlfriends or EVEN wives.
But lets not tell him the truth eh? Probably wouldn't let me out again.

What's it worth to keep quiet then, Sheena?

[Lou]

Originally posted by Sheena
I often dance as a man in the class and some women are NOT comfortable with that although the majority seem not to mind.
Also if I'm at a freestyle and a good record comes on I would definitely ask another girl to dance if no-one asked me up. I've not been refused yet............

[AOL] Me too! [/AOL]
In fact, several ladies have told me that they like to dance with me as I dance & lead better than a lot of the men in the class.
I've said before about the one disadvantage I've found (and it's already been mentioned in this thread) about how some moves can be a bit more uncomfortable (both physically and in a socially "acceptable" way) when both ladies have large... errmm... "knees"!
Seriously, I actually enjoy the chance to dance as the Leader sometimes, and I enjoy the dance as a bit of a giggle & fun.

[TheTramp]

I often dance as a man in the class and some women are NOT comfortable with that although the majority seem not to mind.

You think you have problems dancing as a man Sheena. You should have seen the response when I went round a class as a woman. You could see the guys 'counting ahead', and the dropping out if the count ended up with me. I gave up in the end, and went off and did the class on the side (with a nice young lady leading me).

Although, it's been commented at one dance recently, when I was dancing with DavidB, that I was one of the best 'women' in the room!

Steve

[Lou]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Although, it's been commented at one dance recently, when I was dancing with DavidB, that I was one of the best 'women' in the room!

I'd love to dance role reversal with you some time! I suspect it may well be more successful than when I danced with you as the lady! I was far too awe inspired by the talented ladies who had gone before me! (Although I'm nervous enough having to follow in the illustrious footsteps of DavidB!!!!)

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Lou
Although I'm nervous enough having to follow in the illustrious footsteps of DavidB!!!!

The only thing that comes close to me dancing with Steve is Sumo Wrestling...

[TheTramp]

So. Does this mean that next time we dance, we've got to do it in 'Nappies' then David? Some chalk on the hands first. That sort of thing!!

Steve