competition or complementary

[PeterL]

I've had a few discussions recently about different dance venues and competing organisations to ceroc.
I have come across some people with the attitude that Ceroc can be very Big Brother and try to discourage any competition and also come across the attitude of, "now you can ceroc you are ready to " -insert relevant dance here-

Here are my thoughts on the subject.

Ceroc like any business strives to be the best at what it does.
Provide an accessible dance that is open to a large audience.

Other organisation such as swing, Lindy Hop, salsa etc strive to be the best at what they do.
teach a specific dance style.

I believe that ceroc and other organisations are actually complementary.
Ceroc attracts a large number of people to dance and teaches them very well, some of these people, as people do, want to branch out and try other forms of dance. Hence other organisations benefit from Ceroc.

Ceroc on the other hand benefits from other organisations in a slightly different way. A lot of the best dancers have done another style of dance as well and incorporate this into ceroc, these people are the best advertisement for ceroc. You will notice that one of the best ways to get people to try ceroc is to show them (i.e. a Busk) and once you are already going to ceroc these are the poeple that you aspire to dance like, and so you go more often. People do not abandon ceroc for another dance style as ceroc supplys far more people to dance with, but they may go and learn different styles and bring it back into there ceroc (this is a good thing).

I hope that the above made some sort of sense but to round it off I would like to say that as long as all these groups don't compete for dancers (i.e. hold partys in the same area on the same night) not only do they live in harmony but they actually help each others business.

And Frank should be commended for allowing the social events area of this site to advertise competing organisation events.

I personally only ceroc but am pleased that these other organisations supply events to go to, if ceroc is on that is where I go, but when not I can go to a swing party (and ceroc the night away), this just gives me more choice.

I would be pleased to hear anyone elses thoughts on the subject.

[Dreadful Scathe]

You've confused this with a forum where we have sensible, well thought out discussions . (You can join DavidB on the podium of most sensible )

Good points well made. I agree with you, especially about Francks commendation there is a good atmosphere up here with most dancers and people like Franck just make it better - it's nice to be nice. Theres not much rivalry and generally a good attitude, as is regularly demonstrated when a 'non-specific' event or party is on and you see people with all sorts of different dance preferences.

[Will]

Totally Agree with you too PeterL.

Nice One.

[Gus]

Originally posted by PeterL
......I hope that the above made some sort of sense but to round it off I would like to say that as long as all these groups don't compete for dancers (i.e. hold partys in the same area on the same night) not only do they live in harmony but they actually help each others business.

And Frank should be commended for allowing the social events area of this site to advertise competing organisation events.

Some very good points well made. I think the key point is the wish for "harmony". It nice to see that over recent years the aggressive competition from some rival Jive organisation has settled down to just friendly competition or even co-operation. Of course, people being people, there are always a few exceptions as recent events in the North West and the Midlands have shown, but by and large Nirvana is here .

With the Lindy vs Ceroc thing .... for the most part they are satisfying different markets. Lindy tends to atract dancers who either like more swing music and/or are looking for more technical complexity (IMHO). Experience has shown that the two can live in harmony and actualy support each other to thrive.

At the end of the day, the more choice for the punter tends to be a good thing.

[Dance Demon]

Originally posted by Gus
Some very good points well made. I think the key point is the wish for "harmony".

At the end of the day, the more choice for the punter tends to be a good thing.

I seem to recall making this point in a previous thread (Organization or dance style) when others were making remarks about "cowboys" I wholeheartedly Agree with PeterL's point that as long as events are not on the same night, then they are not competing, and if the musical content is vastly different, it offers an alternative, or indeed more choice.

I would doubt that anyone would be foolhardy enough to try to compete with Ceroc, certainly in Scotland, nor would I think they would want to. I think the main motive is to provide an occasional alternative, which can only be a good thing, as too much of one thing can become boring. I know for a fact that organisers of most alternative events, when asked by people where they can find regular jive classes, point them in the direction of Ceroc.(I can only talk about Scotland as I am not familiar with the situation elsewhere in the UK)

DD

[Gus]

Originally posted by Dance Demon

I would doubt that anyone would be foolhardy enough to try to compete with Ceroc, certainly in Scotland, nor would I think they would want to.............(I can only talk about Scotland as I am not familiar with the situation elsewhere in the UK)

DD

Interesting point .... but surely the pint is that the best clubs should do best ... and you appear to be making an assumption that all Ceroc clubs are the best. Sorry, but this is not the case. There are a number of other organisations, e.g. Blitz and JiveBug who have nights with instructors, venues and music superior to competing Ceroc nights.

Dont forget that Ceroc isn't alwys the first modern jive club in an area ... and that there are significant areas of the UK where there are no Ceroc clubs ... in the North West, Ceroc is the minor operator, the key clubs being Blitz and Swing Roc.

As has been said before, the best thing from a dancers perspective IS to have competition to Ceroc ... and trust that the Ceroc operators don't revert to the 'bad old' days of banning rivals. I think the best model of operation I've seen is that of Ceroc Scotland for which I have genuine admiration.

[Dance Demon]

Yes Gus I agree with most of your points, but the point that I was trying to make was that Ceroc is too large an organisation to compete with IN SCOTLAND. the organisations you mention do not operate in Scotland. I have no crib with your comment about the best clubs doing the best, and don't think that all Ceroc clubs are the best. I also have learned that you should NEVER assume. The other point is that some Ceroc franchisees think that everyone else who runs a jive night is trying to compete, when this is not stricly the case. Most people who start a club try to avoid days and dates that clash with others,and are trying to offer an occasional alternative. However as you stated in a previous thread, if your organisation is big enough, you can start up on the same night as the new club, and put them out of business. Unfortunately, people tend to follow the crowd and prefer to go to a busy venue, regardless of whether the other venue plays better/different music etc.

DD