nice one

[Dreadful Scathe]

I read this and thought "go on, nice one" but Im sad it was necessary. Well done to the Nearly Health Service.

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

I read this and thought "go on, nice one" but Im sad it was necessary. Well done to the Nearly Health Service.

Aye - I'm pretty horrified at why he had to resort to that ... but good on him for doing it. Ridiculous situation.

[TiggsTours]

That is just so sad! I'm surprised that the agreed to a payment plan, and didn't send in the bailiffs though. That poor man, I wonder how many others are sufferring in the same way.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

That is just so sad! I'm surprised that the agreed to a payment plan, and didn't send in the bailiffs though.

What are they going to do? Repossess his heart?

[Piglet]

Good on him.

Something needs to be done about the desperate state of our Health Service because all the stories I hear are about waiting lists to see consultants, then waiting lists for scans and then waiting lists to see the consultants again for scans. Time does not seem of the essence to our Health Service. And then of course, if you are lucky enough to get a bed in hospital, often you come out with an MRSA gift - yippee!

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Something needs to be done about the desperate state of our Health Service because all the stories I hear are about waiting lists to see consultants, then waiting lists for scans and then waiting lists to see the consultants again for scans. Time does not seem of the essence to our Health Service. And then of course, if you are lucky enough to get a bed in hospital, often you come out with an MRSA gift - yippee!

Oh boy. I'm looking forward to my impending operation more and more and more

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Good on him.

Something needs to be done about the desperate state of our Health Service because all the stories I hear are about waiting lists to see consultants, then waiting lists for scans and then waiting lists to see the consultants again for scans. Time does not seem of the essence to our Health Service. And then of course, if you are lucky enough to get a bed in hospital, often you come out with an MRSA gift - yippee!

My mum had her knee replaced recently.. and she had a bottle of that sanitising hand wash and everytime a doctor or a nurse came to inspect her she handed it to them and told them to wash their hands even if they said they had just washed them.. hehe, and trust me, nobody argues with my mum.

Mind you , that said, she still got a bad SA (Staphylococcus aureus) infection just not the methicillin resistant variant.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by straycat264

Oh boy. I'm looking forward to my impending operation more and more and more

Oops sorry Stray - have a hug
Just don't have your op in Aberdeen!

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Good on him.

I dunno so much. There was an item on the London news about this last night, but it still didn't go into the history or context much.

For example, the BBC news article stated:

The pensioner suffered from terrible pain for more years "than I can remember."

But that doesn't mean he'd been waiting for an operation for years, so you have to ask what had been happening in that time? Had the pain suddenly got worse? Had he seen a doctor previously? Was he really in immediate danger?

God knows, we've all got horror stories about the NHS, and the Labour policy of just throwing money at the problem has clearly been less than wonderful, but I'm not convinced that fraud is a good solution. Arguably, he's just jumped the queue...

[Heather]

Well done that man!!!


Heather

[Rebecca]

I'm trying to decide how I feel about the connections between this issue and this other thread initiated by Dreadful Scathe:

sent to gaol

I work for the NHS in a secure unit for people detained under the Mental Health Act as a result of their mental disorder and risk to others. Often they have been referred from the prison service. I also used to work for the prison service.

I thought, having considered the above – Do my patients have the right to complain about the conditions in which they live? After all, they have no choice but to be there. . . . . Of course they do!

Then I thought – Do NHS patients in general medicine have a right to complain about their treatment in hospital? After all, it could be argued that they have a choice to seek treatment elsewhere. . . . . Of course they do! Many don’t have this choice, and to seek private treatment (often not the better option I will add) is not viable for most – it might even take a criminal act to enable this choice (i.e. fraud), and remember, it is being argued that criminals don’t have the right to complain.

[TiggsTours]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I'm not convinced that fraud is a good solution. Arguably, he's just jumped the queue...

Good point. I wonder how many other people who also needed lifesaving operations, and had been waiting even longer, got pushed further down the queue because of it.

I think its sad that anyone should feel that they have to resort to major fraud to have this type of operation, but we don't know anything about the man in question, maybe major fraud wasn't such a big deal to him.

Originally Posted by Lou

What are they going to do? Repossess his heart?

No, but they could have repossessed any of his belongings in order to recover the cost, like his home, for example.

[Ballroom queen]

Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

I read this and thought "go on, nice one" but Im sad it was necessary. Well done to the Nearly Health Service.

Well I'm sorry guys, but had he done this to buy a telly, a house, pay a legal bill, or virtually ANYTHING else he'd have been HAD - possibly banged up, I don't know (I'm not a lawyer). Somehow because its the good ole NHS everyone thinks it a big laugh. He pays 25 quid a month - it'll be 25 years before its paid!!!!

Oh yeah, I hear you all, we should all get our health care for free - no one wants to pay more tax, no one wants to actually pay a bill for health - but you all want the fancy expensive new drugs and fancy new treatment - that wasn't available 5 or 10 years ago. (I could continue with gross generalisations about smoking and drinking, but I won't...)

I know, you'll all start banging on about how much more dosh has gone into the NHS blah blah blah - I work in it and have done for years, I don't have the answers - other than we probably do need to pay more tax, but please guys, blatant fraud is NOT the answer, and please don't give this guy sympathy.

Remember the thread on someones car being broken into in the hipsters car park - this is the same as that, theft, and he's a criminal. I don't care why either of them did it, its wrong.

(Although I have to say, I am amazed at how niave that hospital was that they didn't wait for the cheque to clear.)

hey ho

[straycat]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

But that doesn't mean he'd been waiting for an operation for years, so you have to ask what had been happening in that time? Had the pain suddenly got worse? Had he seen a doctor previously? Was he really in immediate danger?

God knows, we've all got horror stories about the NHS, and the Labour policy of just throwing money at the problem has clearly been less than wonderful, but I'm not convinced that fraud is a good solution. Arguably, he's just jumped the queue...

Hard to say, I suppose, because we don't really know all the facts (never can be 100% trusting of either side of a story like this) - but...

Living in continuous pain for years is not much fun (I can testify to this), and it can simply be a case of ultimately snapping a little, saying "I've had enough of this", and looking at your options - especially if he believed his life was in danger.

Having said that... in my best attempt at reading between the lines - it does rather look as if he may have put up with the pain for years, finally gone to see a doctor about it, and then been put on the waiting list & been told about the danger. Which is far less creditable, as (if this is the case) had he seen a doctor much earlier, the problem may have been treated years before, with less drastic treatment.

It's just one possibility, but it seems to fit the reported facts (and would answer yout first question)

If this is the case, we get onto the moral issue: if I have knowingly neglected / abused my own health for a significant length of time, am I still entitled to the same (or preferential) treatment over someone who's taken good care of themselves? (my own feeling being a rather harsh 'Not a Chance'.)

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Arguably, he's just jumped the queue...

how did he do that? He went private to avoid the queue he was in, anyone else could have done the same. If private hospitals manage to arrange operations with no queues, why cant the NHS? Its usually the same surgeons, yet they can only do it if they get paid more? Do they get paid far too litle with the NHS?

Originally Posted by rebecca

I thought, having considered the above – Do my patients have the right to complain about the conditions in which they live? After all, they have no choice but to be there. . . . . Of course they do!

Of course they do, they paid their taxes like everyone else and arent there because they broke the laws of their society. I dont think its the same arguement as someone who the law has felt must be incarcerated to protect the rest of society yet can still make demands of it.

it is being argued that criminals don’t have the right to complain.

Overall most people seem happy with the importance put on human rights on the other thread.

Originally Posted by Ballroom Queen

Oh yeah, I hear you all, we should all get our health care for free - no one wants to pay more tax,

Why do you say that? I certainly do. If I have to pay a lot more in tax for a better standard of living for my family I am all for it. I look to Sweden and Norway as models for a better society. That goes for there prisons too.

Originally Posted by Ballroom Queen

but you all want the fancy expensive new drugs and fancy new treatment - that wasn't available 5 or 10 years ago.

Expensive treatments that are not yet approved should not be given freely on the NHS - despite drug companies pushing the next big thing the NHS cant succumb to media pressure based on 1 or 2 people who think they "might" benefit. One of the reasons the NHS waste so much money is that people are prepared to sue medical staff - if someone is trying to help you, especially in a public service you shouldnt even be allowed to sue. Internal committees should sort out the problems in a public body and compensation, if any is merited, should be handed out by them. When the courts get involved, lots of people make money, and the NHS loses money that could be used for pushing through testing and subsequent approval of new drugs and techniques. I alwasy have a dry chuckle at people who win a million £ settlement and say "we just wanted to make sure it never happened to anyone else" but keep the money anyway.

Originally Posted by Ballroom Queen

(I could continue with gross generalisations about smoking and drinking, but I won't...)

Smoking is completely banned in all enclosed public places in this country - as it should be. About time too. There is also legislation against happy hours to curb binge drinking - it all helps.

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Ballroom queen

(I could continue with gross generalisations about smoking and drinking, but I won't...)

No - do we all love a fun debate

Originally Posted by Ballroom queen

I know, you'll all start banging on about how much more dosh has gone into the NHS blah blah blah - I work in it and have done for years, I don't have the answers - other than we probably do need to pay more tax, but please guys, blatant fraud is NOT the answer, and please don't give this guy sympathy.

Remember the thread on someones car being broken into in the hipsters car park - this is the same as that, theft, and he's a criminal. I don't care why either of them did it, its wrong.

OK. My previous post notwithstanding, it sounds like he had a choice: risk death, or do this. No, it isn't right that he did this. It also isn't right that the NHS queues were placing his life at serious risk. This is not a black-and-white issue.

Originally Posted by Ballroom queen

(Although I have to say, I am amazed at how niave that hospital was that they didn't wait for the cheque to clear.)

Agreed. And I'll be willing to bet that that never happens again...

Originally Posted by Ballroom queen

hey ho

No kidding

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by straycat264

It also isn't right that the NHS queues were placing his life at serious risk.

Especially if the queue is entirely artificial as this article shows

What happened to the old NHS run by medical personel not pen pushers ?