Should you challenge?

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by Martin

If a person posts on the forum, and claims to have done, or not to have done certain things... Claims to have danced for x years, claims to be an expert in x dance...

There are people on this forum who have danced for decades before discovering MJ. There are many on this forum who are far more "expert" about dance than I, who have been dancing for a fraction of the time I have in years, but who have had a far more intense experience both in theory and in practise at a higher level, and a far greater talent for absorbing dance knowledge.

What are the precise claims? If they are false, how are they hurting who? If their actions are hurting somebody then they are very likely to be against the law, and there are probably legal bodies who they should be reported to.

[kiwi_clay]

Now I am not alluding to any of the people on this forum, but as an example in Sydney we have a gentleman that the first question asked is always how long have you been dancing, if you answer "I am a beginner" you will over the course of the evening be treated to just how experienced knowledgeable, etc he is, he dances dangerous drops etc, and those dips he does are done poorly, and not safetly, trouble is he has only been dancing around six months, never completes a class, and always trys to lead mid level intermediate moves on beginners...Challenge him..YES!!!

[~*~Saligal~*~]

When someone says they've been dancing for years - did they clarify whether they had been dancing ceroc for years? or that they had been doing other dance forms as well as ceroc and that experience totals to the "years" of dance? Maybe the example given was one known between a few people, but from reading the posts it left me with that question.
Regarding experience in dance to be an expert? hmmm... from my experience I have been taught by people who are great technicians in the style (ie have great knowledge in the dance and how it is to be executed) but weren't great dancers themselves in the style. In comparison - in the same style I have some top dancers teach me, and I have found them lousy teachers. Even though they have excelled in their style, because the style came naturally to them they weren't great technicians in teaching others. So who is the expert in the dance style?
(btw the dance style was ballet. I studied it for 16 years completing all of my RAD examinations with no less than a highly commended and I have ARAD status - just in case someone was enquiring )

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~

<snip> good points <snip>

Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~

(btw the dance style was ballet. I studied it for 16 years completing all of my RAD examinations with no less than a highly commended and I have ARAD status - just in case someone was enquiring )

I trust you'll scan the relevant documents / certificates and pm them to the Moderators for verification, along with contact details of 2 referees

[jeanie]

I guess the magic of the internet is - you can be whoever you want. For all anybody on here knows I could be a multi-billionare* who has 5 houses* in different areas in the world, but as no-one knows me so who will challenge me?

The downfall is on the person who makes false claims as what goes around comes around.

I openly admit I know bu66er all about dancing but am definitely enjoying it. If people feel the need to lie about their lives I find it's usually because something is missing from it or they are suffering from green eye distress!

* = in my wildest dreams!!

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by jeanag

The downfall is on the person who makes false claims as what goes around comes around.

The problem is that in this instance you and others can get hurt through following bad advice

"In my 237 years experience as a Ceroc World Champion I've found there's nothing women like more than to be surprised by drops - don't ask them, it spoils the surprise. And fast sudden ones with no warning are the best"

[TA Guy]

I don't really take the forum seriously enough to worry about whether people lie or not. I enjoy it during the boring bits of work, and sometimes good tips do surface amongst the dross, but there are often agendas at work, even if it's only people 'bigging' up their own preferred style or favoured nights etc.

I've been dancing MJ for a good few years, not the most on here by any means, but at the top end, and the years of experience puts a lot of the stuff said on here in perspective and to be honest, I don't mind if people don't believe that. No skin off my nose A fairly high percentage of the stuff on here, including much of mine, is only opinion. Which means it's inviting challenge anyway.

Difficulty, I guess, is posts containing factual, but personal information. Becomes a bit trickier to challenge then. Any challenges there really need to be done behind the scenes and I presume the mods would take action is it was deemed relevent and important enough. It can get nasty if it's done in public, and that kind of stuff can be detrimental to any forum.

[jeanie]

I think the 237 years is mmmmm perhaps a slight exageration?

I wouldn't thank anyone for a sudden drop more likely to damage a body part with that... surely anyone with sense would think there was something slightly off with that advice?

[NZ Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ghost

"In my 237 years experience as a Ceroc World Champion I've found there's nothing women like more than to be surprised by drops - don't ask them, it spoils the surprise. And fast sudden ones with no warning are the best"

OK Ghost, clearly the poster here is mistaken and nobody in their right mind would take them seriously.

Everybody knows it's the surprise aerials that really float their boat!

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by jeanag

I think the 237 years is mmmmm perhaps a slight exageration?

But not that I'm World Champion?

Originally Posted by jeanag

I wouldn't thank anyone for a sudden drop more likely to damage a body part with that... surely anyone with sense would think there was something slightly off with that advice?

There have been similar albeit slightly toned down versions on here. If the person posting says "Yup only been dancing 3 weeks" and then a whole load of Forumites post citing that they've been teaching drops workshops for 10 years etc and that this is very bad advice, it's clearer to people reading it. Whereas I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on here with more than 237 years experience, though there are a few actual World Champs

[jeanie]

Originally Posted by TA Guy

I It can get nasty if it's done in public, and that kind of stuff can be detrimental to any forum.

As a member on other forums for my other hobby things got rather heated when it came to complaining about service from companies and trips that had been planned but where things went wrong, as people jamp in with their version and who said what. It ended up in a mud slinging match which resulted in the offending posts being removed.

That's not what a forum is for. If someone challenges a post it leaves the door open for anybody else to join in with their opinion and next thing you know it will be out of hand. If someone needs to fib and you know they are, deal with it amongst yourselves. Its quicker & easier.

[jeanie]

Originally Posted by Ghost

But not that I'm World Champion?

I don't know you so for all I know you could be and if you are well -

[kiwi_clay]

Originally Posted by Ghost

But not that I'm World Champion?

There have been similar albeit slightly toned down versions on here. If the person posting says "Yup only been dancing 3 weeks" and then a whole load of Forumites post citing that they've been teaching drops workshops for 10 years etc and that this is very bad advice, it's clearer to people reading it. Whereas I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on here with more than 237 years experience, though there are a few actual World Champs

And which comp bills themselves as the world champs ??....,

Tho I do have heaps of respect for those dancers who have competed and won/placed at multiple national titles, esp those who do so in trippppllleeeess

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by kiwi_clay

Now I am not alluding to any of the people on this forum, but as an example in Sydney we have a gentleman that the first question asked is always how long have you been dancing, if you answer "I am a beginner" you will over the course of the evening be treated to just how experienced knowledgeable, etc he is, he dances dangerous drops etc, and those dips he does are done poorly, and not safetly, trouble is he has only been dancing around six months, never completes a class, and always trys to lead mid level intermediate moves on beginners...Challenge him..YES!!!

By all means, challenge any "wrong" posts someone such as this makes on the forum - that's why it's called a discussion forum, not a cheerleading forum.

But, I'm not convinced it'd be appropriate for the moderators to get involved in such a discussion, taking sides effectively. God knows, we get accused of interfering enough already.

Originally Posted by Ghost

I trust you'll scan the relevant documents / certificates and pm them to the Moderators for verification, along with contact details of 2 referees

Oh, please do. There's nothing I enjoy more than a good solid session of document-verification.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Ghost

"In my 237 years experience as a Ceroc World Champion I've found there's nothing women like more than to be surprised by drops - don't ask them, it spoils the surprise. And fast sudden ones with no warning are the best"

That's a very good example - but I'd definitely see that as a statement which should be challenged (and refuted) by discussion rather than by moderator intervention.

[Martin]

Originally Posted by jeanag

a multi-billionare* who has 5 houses* in different areas in the world,

Cool - I love you long time.....

Originally Posted by jeanag

* = in my wildest dreams!!

damn, you had to go and spoil it

[Martin]

Originally Posted by kiwi_clay

Now I am not alluding to any of the people on this forum, but as an example in Sydney we have a gentleman that the first question asked is always how long have you been dancing, if you answer "I am a beginner" you will over the course of the evening be treated to just how experienced knowledgeable, etc he is, he dances dangerous drops etc, and those dips he does are done poorly, and not safetly, trouble is he has only been dancing around six months, never completes a class, and always trys to lead mid level intermediate moves on beginners...Challenge him..YES!!!

That would be classified as a "local challenge" - protecting your local dancers.

The sad fact is that I think I know who you are talking about. I do hope you can offer protection to those beginners.

This discussion is more about wild claims on an open forum and should we stand up and be counted on a forum and counter those claims, if we 100% know them to be a little untrue.

On a subjective note... a certain [wannabe] Latin dancer who amused the forum for a while, having stopped posting on the Aussie forum (and 100% lied about who he was), has found another forum to chat on (purely for research and for his proffesor you understand)... this is all IMHO you understand... I could be wrong......

pop quiz... can you work out what poster and what forum?

[jeanie]

Originally Posted by Martin

Cool - I love you long time.....



damn, you had to go and spoil it

I'm sorry

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by kiwi_clay

And which comp bills themselves as the world champs ??....,

I've been hosting it for the past two centuries. Sadly no-one else ever shows up so I win by default (It was intended in the same vein as the 237 year's experience, but also as a 'credible' example of complete fiction)

Originally Posted by DavidJames

That's a very good example - but I'd definitely see that as a statement which should be challenged (and refuted) by discussion rather than by moderator intervention.

The one big problem I have, is that if someone is willing to lie about their background, they're probably not averse to starting a ruck and getting threads taken outside if they're challenged. After the sixth time, the people doing the challenging get fed up. Plus the threads are deleted so newer members are unaware of such goings on. Not to mention all the bad feeling it causes.

As you say it breaks the "My house is your house" rule.

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Oh, please do. There's nothing I enjoy more than a good solid session of document-verification.

Well this is the benefit as I see it. We can only ask. Ultimately we can't force the Moderators to act, which puts a "common sense" mechanism in place. And let's face it if the Moderators go rogue, we've got bigger problems

[Isis]

Originally Posted by Martin

Cool - I love you long time.....

What do you need a rich woman for Martin? I thought you and your clever accountant were minted