Vista

[Barry Shnikov]

Vista inconvenienced me again on Saturday, by starting up to reveal only a black screen with a white arrow cursor. I started in Safe Mode - same problem, so not the graphics driver (which in any event was Nvidia's Jan 2008 driver).

So I had to use the Vista DVD Rom and go through the Repair Installation routine twice which Restored me to an earlier point. So that was a waste of two hours.

Then the ealier Restore point did not have a full installation of my Epson R2400 printer, and I went all round the houses - turning USB printing off and back on again, uninstalling, reinstalling, trying to print - before finally resolving the issue. By which time it was too late to do the prints which I had intended to take with me to freestyle that night. Another two plus hours wasted.

DON'T BUY VISTA. If you get a new PC, get one with XP / SP3.

Rumour is now that Vienna, the next version of Windows, is going to be ready in 2009. So wait for that. It couldn't possibly be worse (famous last words).

[timbp]

Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov

they couldn't be arsed to work out a way to enable their customers - you know, the people who buy $billions worth of software off them - to access Help files for programs

They have worked out a way. And earlier posts in this thread contain links to it. Microsoft just didn't think it worth including the option in the new version by default.

So you have a program you have been using, and now you've upgraded to Vista, and you still need to access the help files? It can't be a very easy program to use; maybe you should look for an alternative that works with Vista.

[Barry Shnikov]

Originally Posted by timbp

So you have a program you have been using, and now you've upgraded to Vista, and you still need to access the help files? It can't be a very easy program to use; maybe you should look for an alternative that works with Vista.

Thanks for the suggestion. Are you volunteering to pay for it? Possibly you are so wealthy that having to replace all your legacy programs is just a flea bite. Not so for me.

There are programs where some functions are only used from time to time, and it is not possible to remember precisely how to invoke and control all those functions. Since software publishers routinely don't bother with manuals anymore, relying on electronic documents and a well-designed (sometimes, not so well) Help system, Micrososft's decision to simply inform anyone trying to use such a Help system that they can't do it anymore, or that they have to have internet access on that machine at that moment in order to resolve the problem and use the program as it was intended, is simply down to commercial indifference.

'We're a monopolistic market leader. If you don't like the way we do things, good luck with Linux. Ha ha.'

I'm no IT expert, but I know my way round computers and Windows, can edit Registry files and use the Command prompt and the Task Manager and Device Manager. And yet time and time again Vista has got in the way of me getting my tasks done in a way that XP, 98, 95 and 3.1 never did.

[Lynn]

Seems to me that if you have some tech knowledge you can adapt Vista to make it run with no problems and indeed find it better than XP.

So basically its completely unsuitable as a product for the mass market who just want to turn on their PC and use it, without having to make any tweaks or changes.

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Seems to me that if you have some tech knowledge you can adapt Vista to make it run with no problems and indeed find it better than XP.

Certainly not true for everyone. I'm one techie who prefers XP.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by straycat264

Certainly not true for everyone. I'm one techie who prefers XP.

Yep, I know, that was what I meant 'can' adapt it and find it better than XP. I meant 'possibly' to both parts of the statement. I should have addeda a 'may' after the indeed to clarify!

[timbp]

Originally Posted by Lynn

So basically its completely unsuitable as a product for the mass market who just want to turn on their PC and use it, without having to make any tweaks or changes.

I know I am better at sorting out computer problems than any of my friends, and any of the people I used to work with (and probably any of those I now work with, but I don't know them well enough to be sure).

When I bought my new computer, I was a bit unsure about choosing Vista.
But it is the only computer I have bought where I could just turn it on and start using it, without having to make any tweaks or changes.
In fact, it is the first computer I have ever owned that has worked the way I want. (And I am counting my original MacSE with Word 4.)

[Barry Shnikov]

Of course people are going to buy Vista and it will work right out of the box. Many people buy a Russell Hobbs toaster and never have any problems with it.

Hardly anyone has real problems with their toaster. Many people however are buying Vista and finding it a buggering nuisance. I know 3 people who returned to PC World and asked them to install XP instead, as had been promised when they originally bought their computer.

You never hear anyone say 'Well, the latest Russell Hobbs toaster is OK so long as you're a technical type and can work out how to tweak it so that it works acceptably well".

I recognise that Microsoft were trapped, originally by writing an 8 bit operating system for a chip designed for washing machines to power an IBM 'personal computer', overall worldwide final sales figures for which were forecast to be not more than 2,000 units; and by the fact that the PC manufacturers then had to produce PCs that were backwardly compatible with the operating system and therefore the 8-bit washing machine chip, so that when Windows was first introduced it too had to be compatible with outdated technology and every subsequent version of Windows has also been required - until Vista - to be backwardly compatible.

That's no excuse for putting out an operating system in which, for example, ineffective and inadequate 'content sniffing' of files in a folder leads to a folder which contains nothing but .jpg files to be classified as a music folder, and even for protected folders like 'My Documents' to be classified as a music folder, meaning that every time I want to sort 'My documents' in order of date I have to go first to the 'View' menu and add 'Date' to the list of file data to be shown. Until I get round to shutting content sniffing off, which requires an edit to the Registry and is therefore far beyond your average computer user.

[Mr Darcy]

Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov

meaning that every time I want to sort 'My documents' in order of date I have to go first to the 'View' menu and add 'Date' to the list of file data to be shown.

If you right-click in the 'documents' folder (not on a file in it though), there is an option called 'Customize this folder'. Select that and the on the 'Customize' tab there is a drop down list of choices, you'd probably want 'Documents'. It will also reset the template for the subfolders if you wish.

[philsmove]

BBC NEWS | Technology | Microsoft warns on Vista update

[RedFox]

Originally Posted by philsmove

BBC NEWS | Technology | Microsoft warns on Vista update

Ah well, at least it doesn't stop anything important working. Mainly just your security software.


When I get round to upgrading, it will be to Linux.

[Robin]

Can I just point out that you cannot compare 64 bit vista with 32 bit XP ?

There are and will be many compatibility issues with any version of 64bit Windows as opposed to 32bit.

IMHO, vista seems to be far more of a polished product than XP was when it was launched - please remember that lots of people had the same sort of comments when moving from win98/2000 to XP.

I personally finf that if you switch off all the "enhancements" that vista becomes rock stable.

I've also noticed that it definitely works better on new pc's that it is supplied with as opposed to "homebrew's", but that again, if you switch off extras and disable any un-needed services it seems to be as stable or even more so than XP

just my experience.

[Barry Shnikov]

Originally Posted by Mr Darcy

If you right-click in the 'documents' folder (not on a file in it though), there is an option called 'Customize this folder'. Select that and the on the 'Customize' tab there is a drop down list of choices, you'd probably want 'Documents'. It will also reset the template for the subfolders if you wish.

Thanks, but I'm not an idiot!!

The problem is caused by the Vista system not functioning as advertised. The folders in question do not have a Customise this folder option. Next time you are looking at your, e.g., Documents folder, have a look. You'll see the option isn't there. That's where the problem lies; you aren't supposed to want or need to customise this and a handful of other folders: however, if Documents insists that it's a music folder, despite containing not a single music file and despite being intended to be a general folder, then you are screwed unless you re-set the system folders (which I've already done once, only to have the gremlins gradually creep back in) or switch off 'content sniffing', which I am informed will sort it out permanently.

[Barry Shnikov]

Originally Posted by Robin

I personally finf that if you switch off all the "enhancements" that vista becomes rock stable.

I've also noticed that it definitely works better on new pc's that it is supplied with as opposed to "homebrew's", but that again, if you switch off extras and disable any un-needed services it seems to be as stable or even more so than XP

just my experience.

I'm next to speechless with what you've posted. You aren't engaging with my criticism, which is that Vista is a crappy operating system.

I refer to my comments above about toaster. *** what in the bowels of christ is the point of an operating system that only functions as advertised when you switch off everything but the core services? Might as well point out that I could probably still run CP/M-86 if I do enough juggling...

[Robin]

Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov

I'm next to speechless with what you've posted. You aren't engaging with my criticism, which is that Vista is a crappy operating system.

I refer to my comments above about toaster. *** what in the bowels of christ is the point of an operating system that only functions as advertised when you switch off everything but the core services? Might as well point out that I could probably still run CP/M-86 if I do enough juggling...

Sorry, was merely trying to help with work-arounds. If you;ve bought something and are stuck with it, then you make do. The fact that there are inherrent faults with the concept is neither here nor there. If you wonder why you should switch everything off, maybe its because microsoft themselves have realised that its not a bad thing - look at the latest version of windows server 2008 - shares about 70% of vista code and has no gui at all!

[Barry Shnikov]

Originally Posted by Robin

Sorry, was merely trying to help with work-arounds. If you;ve bought something and are stuck with it, then you make do. The fact that there are inherrent faults with the concept is neither here nor there. If you wonder why you should switch everything off, maybe its because microsoft themselves have realised that its not a bad thing - look at the latest version of windows server 2008 - shares about 70% of vista code and has no gui at all!

Your wish to help is appreciated; apologies if I came across as impatient.

80% of the time Vista is OK. it's the 20% that makes me want to see Microsoft sued to their knees for releasing such dodgy software. I read in PCPro or similar where a sysop had to Run As Administrator and select 'Add Printer', ignoring Vista's warning messages, in order to install an all-in-one device because Vista's plug-n-play add printer routine crashed every time he tried to use his printer. His opinion was because the plug-n-play routine was not adequately error trapped: he says Microsoft are like the builders and operators of the Titanic - we don't code for that eventuality because it's impossible, just as lifeboats weren't required because the ship was unsinkable.