Tecchie Help Needed!

[TiggsTours]

Hi all,

When I had my interview for my current job, I stressed that I have never worked in IT and am not at all technical, and was assured that my position was not a technical one. However, they lied, and I have been asked to set up a spreadsheet in order to track compatibility of certain software on certain servers, its only been since I started working here that I discovered there are different types of servers!

The reason for this, is we need to keep track of which servers each of our training courses will/will not work on. Our training courses are all Lectora, and designed on Java or Flash. I've done some searching on the internet, but when you don't even know what jargon to type in to the search, or understand enough to be able to read the results (its like reading a foreign language!) its really not that easy.

What I need to know is:

A list of all versions of Java
A list of all versions of Flash
A list of all types of server


If you can help me, please bear in mind that I don't even understand what I've written!

Thanks in advance,

A V. confused, Tiggs Tours.

[killingtime]

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

A list of all versions of Java
A list of all versions of Flash
A list of all types of server

I'm a bit confused by this. Presumably the Flash component would actually be run on the client not the server. The package in question could be ran on the server using something like Java though. If you use Firefox you can get information about the Flash and Java versions registered with it by typing about:plugins on the address bar. I thought there was a way in IE as well but I can't see it. Presumably they are talking about the OS version in the type of server. In which case you can right click My Computer on the desktop and it will list the Operating System version along with useful stuff like the amount of memory.

[TiggsTours]

Originally Posted by killingtime

I'm a bit confused by this. Presumably the Flash component would actually be run on the client not the server. The package in question could be ran on the server using something like Java though. If you use Firefox you can get information about the Flash and Java versions registered with it by typing about:plugins on the address bar. I thought there was a way in IE as well but I can't see it. Presumably they are talking about the OS version in the type of server. In which case you can right click My Computer on the desktop and it will list the Operating System version along with useful stuff like the amount of memory.

No, this is our courses running on clients servers, and their software, so I need a list of all possible software and all possible servers. I don't need to know what's on my PC at all. Bizzarely enough, I understood about 50% of what you just said!

[killingtime]

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

No, this is our courses running on clients servers, and their software, so I need a list of all possible software and all possible servers. I don't need to know what's on my PC at all. Bizzarely enough, I understood about 50% of what you just said!

So when you said you need a list of all versions of Flash, Java and the server you didn't mean how to get that from a computer rather all possible versions you might have?

[TiggsTours]

Originally Posted by killingtime

So when you said you need a list of all versions of Flash, Java and the server you didn't mean how to get that from a computer rather all possible versions you might have?

That's it, yes!

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

A list of all versions of Java

Java source code in theory should be highly portable (I know, don't start), that's pretty much the entire raison d'etre for the language, so it may not be a problem.

Having said that, Java is (broadly) divided into 3 types:
- J2ME (Java 2, Mobile Edition) - for phones and PDAs
- J2SE (Jave 2, Standard Edition) - for PCs and small servers
- J2EE (Java 2, Enterprise Edition) - for larger-scale servers.

http://www.sun.com/java/about/ gives further explanations and links.

Of course, the code is compiled onto different platforms, but I assume you're talking about the source code here...

As for the others - brain has gone, I'll leave it to clever people...

[David Franklin]

This website lists the web-servers used by the Fortune 1000 companies. There are nearly 40 servers listed, and that's not including the "Other" categories - which probably number several hundred (since they list specific server types down to 0.1% and there are about 10% of "other").

I'm not sure this is the right avenue to pursue...

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Java source code in theory should be highly portable (I know, don't start), that's pretty much the entire raison d'etre for the language, so it may not be a problem.

But in practice, every Java developer I've met was of the "write once, test everywhere" school of thought. I know when I looked at it (5 years ago!), even the simplest applets would often need tweaking to run on say Netscape v.s. IE, or for that matter, Netscape (PC) v.s. Netscape (SGI). So I really wouldn't be comfortable assuming a non-trivial app would work across different Java implementations.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

But in practice, every Java developer I've met was of the "write once, test everywhere" school of thought. I know when I looked at it (5 years ago!), even the simplest applets would often need tweaking to run on say Netscape v.s. IE, or for that matter, Netscape (PC) v.s. Netscape (SGI). So I really wouldn't be comfortable assuming a non-trivial app would work across different Java implementations.

Uh-huh.

What part of "don't start" was the complex bit then?

TT doesn't want to know this stuff, she wants a simple list she can give to her dumbo bosses, which has some vague justification in real life, and which she won't get blamed for when it goes pear-shaped.

Which it obviously will, because it's a dumbo assignment.

TT, I'd just list J2EE and J2SE, and quote the "write-once, run anywhere" mantra if anyone questions it. Which they won't, because they're dumb.

[Clive Long]

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

Hi all,
<< snip context >>
I have been asked to set up a spreadsheet in order to track compatibility of certain software on certain servers, its only been since I started working here that I discovered there are different types of servers!

Amanda

I'll give it a stab

Can't you get a techie to do this searching for you? - he/she will probably know where to look and the questions to ask. Do you have paid support from Lector - ask them for the information?

Software compatibility can be a minefield - especially when it goes wrong.

You might want to think about a "reference enironment" where new releases of software can be regression tested for compatibility before they are released. Software compatibility will constantly be an issue as softare patches are released. Keeping track of the data on compatibility can be an admin job in itself.

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

The reason for this, is we need to keep track of which servers each of our training courses will/will not work on. Our training courses are all Lectora, and designed on Java or Flash. I've done some searching on the internet, but when you don't even know what jargon to type in to the search, or understand enough to be able to read the results (its like reading a foreign language!) its really not that easy.

What I need to know is:

A list of all versions of Java
A list of all versions of Flash
A list of all types of server


If you can help me, please bear in mind that I don't even understand what I've written!

Thanks in advance,

A V. confused, Tiggs Tours.

I think the following context might be useful - I don't know your extent of technical knowledge (probably more than you give yourself credit for).

Looking at the Lectora Supplier Web site I can't work out the basic technical architecture of the system. My feeling is the Lector Web site should be very clear on supported / compatible software versions - but I can't find much apart from a statement that says

System Requirements:

• Windows Intel or AMD class processor
• Windows 98, NT, ME, 2000, or XP operating system
• Lectora 2005 service pack 3
• PowerPoint 97, 2000, or 2003

I'm going to guess ..

Lector purpose - to author and contruct e-learning training material

One should really only use currently supported versions of software because this reduces the risk of incompatibility - but I know of one product (Oxygen) that works with Java 1.4.2 not Java 1.5 (sorry this is so convoluted)

Technical Architecture (guess):
1. Central server to hold content, some content management to control release of course updates, some software to support the "construction" of the content that will be displayed on the client.

I'm guessing that the server side runs on Microsoft Server 2000 or 2003 - but I can't find that quoted on the Lectora / Trivantis Web site

2. Remote clients to present the content to remote users. This is where the Java or Flash is interpreted for presentation.
I know of two major "flavours" of Java for clients. The "standard" Sun distribution and Microsoft variants that are integrated into Windows operating systems. I am aware that the MSoft variants have undergone modifications to maintain compatibility with Java applications and probably to deal with anti-competitive criticisms.

Flash is a product of Macromedia

One can get Java and Flash to work with non-Microsoft browsers on non-Microsoft client (e.g. Firefox on Linux) - but that is uber-geek territory.

---------------------------------
I don't feel I have answered your questions at all.

If I can make it to Bella Pasta tonight I will draw you a few diagrams that might help (or hinder)

Clive

[TiggsTours]

You're a couple of shining stars!!!

[killingtime]

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

That's it, yes!

Well DavidJames sort of listed some of the Java versions; however since it is more likely you are talking about web based java stuff then your versions are:

Microsoft JRE (1.0-1.2 I think): Pray you aren't using this .
Sun's Java Runtime Environment:
1.1, 1.2 will probably cause issues.
1.3 doesn't have some of the handy new stuff. Might cause issues depending on if they rely on some of the new libs however often you can get around this by having some additional files.
1.4 has been out a while and what quite a few people build assuming.
5.0 is the most up-to-date (they just skipped a few versions) and has some new language features that are not backwards compatible. Thankfully very few people are building to this yet since it is quite new.
IBM also have a JRE but you probably won't see it.

There might also be a few other flavors out there as well. The newer versions are built to run the older code.

Flash!

Err... it's a Macromedia controlled thing so you should just see a version progression from 1.0-7.0 (and 8.0 when it is realized if it hasn't been already). You'll probably find version 6.0 and 7.0 common.

Servers!

Err probably... Windows NT; Windows 2000; Windows XP; Windows 2003 Server in a Windows environment. A big bunch of versions of Linux. Mac OSX. Unix (lots of them).

Hope this random brain dump helps.

EDIT: Too late .

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

What part of "don't start" was the complex bit then?

I think it was the bit that said "you must obey all my commands" that I must have missed. Who died and made you cult-leader anyway?

TT doesn't want to know this stuff, she wants a simple list she can give to her dumbo bosses, which has some vague justification in real life, and which she won't get blamed for when it goes pear-shaped.

In which case, for the environment I deal with, I'd check it works on the latest version of IE on Windows XP, and on the Java implementation you get with Firefox. I certainly see enough Java applets that crash Firefox to feel it unwise not to at least check that case. Problem is, I don't know her circumstances well enough to say if there are any other important cases.

Personally I'm of the "tell them it's a dumb question, or try to find a sensible answer" school of thought, rather than the "it's a dumb question, it deserves a dumb answer", especially when said dumb answer usually bites you a year later when they say "YOU told us it works on any J2EE platform".

In practical terms, at some point you probably have to say, "actually, we can't guarantee this works unless you use {list of tested stuff}". It's prohibitively expensive to deal with all the possible cases.

[TiggsTours]

Thank you to all 4 of you, maybe it would help if I described what the spreadsheet is for.

We, as a company, offer web-based training packages, which clients do from their own offices. Therefore, they need to have the right software on their PCs to run the course (this much I understand). However, sometimes, they can't run their courses, for whatever reason, and we are trying to compile a spreadsheet to answer the most common problems.

The most common problem is that the clients server may not be compatible with the version of Java or Flash that they are using. So, in order to ease the pressure on our technical team, we are compiling a spreadsheet so that we mere muggles can ask the relevant questions, and try to answer the issue first.

So, what we need to know is a list of all the possible servers that any of our clients may use to access the internet, and a list of all the possible versions of Java & Flash that they may be using.

You would think that one of our technical team could supply this information, but it is them that have asked me to do it!

Thank you to all of you, I owe you all lots of really lovely dances!

Amanda.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

I think it was the bit that said "you must obey all my commands" that I must have missed. Who died and made you cult-leader anyway?

What, you didn't get the memo?

Don't worry, I'll get some badges printed for you to wear...

Originally Posted by David Franklin

Personally I'm of the "tell them it's a dumb question, or try to find a sensible answer" school of thought, rather than the "it's a dumb question, it deserves a dumb answer", especially when said dumb answer usually bites you a year later when they say "YOU told us it works on any J2EE platform".

Well, maybe - but it's assuming you can reason with your boss. TT already implied her bosses weren't exactly sensible that way, but I could have misinterpreted it. Certainly, explaining to my boss that he's asking for a dumb thing always goes well for me

Originally Posted by David Franklin

especially when said dumb answer usually bites you a year later when they say "YOU told us it works on any J2EE platform".

Nah - you just say in your report "Sun say it works anywhere, but I recommend platform-specific testing". Elementary cover-your-ass technique...

[bigdjiver]

To paraphrase: I have a new job, now I need to find someone to do it for me ...

Actually I like your thinking, you should go far.

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

... What I need to know is:

A list of all versions of Java
A list of all versions of Flash
A list of all types of server

There are various freeware and commercial packages available for download or on magazine cover disks which list the hardware and software installed on a PC. I do not have the experience or expertise to tell you which is best for your needs.

PC Utilities Plus magazine (£6.49)has over 3,000 programs on it, and I have found a few in the networking area which look promising. There are probably others on the DVD. Sorry I cannot help further.

www.zdnet.com and www.tucows.com have searchable download areas.

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by TiggsTours

Thank you to all 4 of you, maybe it would help if I described what the spreadsheet is for.

We, as a company, offer web-based training packages, which clients do from their own offices.

First thing I'm not clear on - who hosts the training package. In other words, does it sit on a webserver at your company, or does it sit on a webserver at the client's company?

Oh, and (excuse me if you know this and it's patronising), there's a common computing paradigm called client-server, where you have one machine that 'does stuff' called a server, and machines that 'ask it to do stuff' called a client. It's really confusing if you call your customers clients and we have to start trying to distinguish the client's server from the client's client.

The most common problem is that the clients server may not be compatible with the version of Java or Flash that they are using.

Are you sure about this? The analogous situation that I would expect to be a common problem is that the customer's client machine does not have the correct version of Java and/or Flash installed.

Sorry if this all feels like hair splitting, it makes a big difference if the problems are on the client machine rather than the server machine.

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Nah - you just say in your report "Sun say it works anywhere, but I recommend platform-specific testing". Elementary cover-your-ass technique...

Respect...