Upgrade Windows ME to Windows XP Home

[Clive Long]

Hello,

A cousin (of mine) has a really flaky Windows ME box - it hangs , i.e. does not respond to keyboard or mouse, but still displays the "active" windows. One has to power down the PC to recover. There is no pattern nor obvious "triggers" to the hang

The PC has got 1.1Ghz proc and 128MB RAM

He wants to keep it for his kids to run games.

Flakiness may be due to Viruses (Norton Anti-Virus expired long, long ago) or Win ME (heard bad stories about this) or falky hardware (how would one know?)

I have run a Microsoft memory diagnostic for a while and that runs clean

So we are thinking about upgrading to Win XP Home.

Will XP Home run OK in 128Mb or should we put in another 128Mb?

Is this upgrade OK or should we nuke the disk and start with a clean install of XP Home?

Amazon want 95 squiddlies for this upgrade software - that's tantamount to theft in my book.

There seem to be lots of sellers of XP Home media and licences on EBay wanting around £25 to £40 - but I can't see how that can work out because I guess MSoft has a strangle-hold on the retail price of all its software. So how can these sellers source valid media and licence keys for that money?

Any ideas on other options to perform this upgrade?

Thanks

Clive

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by Clive Long

Flakiness may be due to Viruses (Norton Anti-Virus expired long, long ago) or Win ME (heard bad stories about this) or falky hardware (how would one know?)

Likely to be just general Windows 9x flakiness.

Originally Posted by Clive Long

Will XP Home run OK in 128Mb or should we put in another 128Mb?

You want to aim for 512MB, but 384MB (i.e. 128 + 256) would be OK.

Originally Posted by Clive Long

Is this upgrade OK or should we nuke the disk and start with a clean install of XP Home?

Nuking is always the best option, but you should be able to install as an upgrade, or in parallel with ME.

Originally Posted by Clive Long

There seem to be lots of sellers of XP Home media and licences on EBay wanting around £25 to £40 - but I can't see how that can work out because I guess MSoft has a strangle-hold on the retail price of all its software. So how can these sellers source valid media and licence keys for that money?

They're probably selling dodgy OEM copies... I assume you know how this works, but in case anyone doesn't... Microsoft sells cheaper OEM licences of Windows to computer manufacturers. These licences are not meant to be available to the public, but there's always someone trying to make a buck by breaking their contact with MS.

Originally Posted by Clive Long

Any ideas on other options to perform this upgrade?

Buy a second hard disk and install it on that, then put the original back in as a "D" drive.

Hope this helps...

(BTW, this thread really, really belongs in the new Geek's corner forum. )

[Clive Long]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Hope this helps...

As always

Originally Posted by ducasi

(BTW, this thread really, really belongs in the new Geek's corner forum. )

Oooooh, ooooh, ooooh, Mr. Greebly (now where's that from )

That slipped right under the ol' radar.

What a smart idea.

Can a kind moderator ship this thread please? (I'll slap a complaint on it - hopefully that will put the spot-light on it)


CRL

[LMC]

since it's not in Geeks corner at the time of posting...

<<<< streaks through thread >>>>

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by Clive Long

Amazon want 95 squiddlies for this upgrade software - that's tantamount to theft in my book.

You can buy a completely legal OEM licensed version of XP Home for about £50 + vat here. The catch is you have to buy it with a piece of computer hardware - from the website:

Microsoft OEM Operating system software MUST be purchased with a non-peripheral hardware component or fully assembled computer system. Non-peripheral hardware consists of a motherboard, graphics card, memory module, hard disk, keyboard or mouse. Full retail boxed products must be ordered if no hardware/PC system is to accompany the sale.

But, you can buy a mouse from the same place for 50p!!!.

The main caveat is that you're more limited about moving an OEM license to a new machine (i.e. you can't). I'm not sure how easy it is to do so with a non-OEM license either though.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

You can buy a completely legal OEM licensed version of XP Home for about £50 + vat here. The catch is you have to buy it with a piece of computer hardware - from the website:

But, you can buy a mouse from the same place for 50p!!!.

The main caveat is that you're more limited about moving an OEM license to a new machine (i.e. you can't). I'm not sure how easy it is to do so with a non-OEM license either though.

I wonder if it's OK as long as you move the mouse you bought at the same time to the new system, too?

[Russell Saxby]

Originally Posted by Clive Long

Flakiness may be due to Viruses (Norton Anti-Virus expired long, long ago) or Win ME (heard bad stories about this) or falky hardware (how would one know?)

Hi Clive

Don't know the answers to your questions I am afraid - just thought I would chip in and say that I found Windows ME a real mare, used to hang all the time esp when I had Norton on the pc.

I ended up loaded XP Home and now use McAfee - all in all a much happier computing experience.

Good luck

Russell

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

I wonder if it's OK as long as you move the mouse you bought at the same time to the new system, too?

Apologies if I'm missing the deadpan sarcasm emoticon, but no, it's not OK. As far as I'm aware, the OS will fail the registration procedure if you try to register twice on machines with different motherboards. (There's an appeal procedure - but you have to convince Microsoft that it's no longer possible to get a replacement motherboard of the same type. Or something like that). And you're only allowed 2 or 3 "major" changes (e.g. CPU type, memory, HD) in a certain time period (something like 3 months) or it will fail to start up.

Though there is actually a certain logic to your suggestion, I don't think Microsoft agree...

I've "up-cloned" my HD from 40GB to 120GB and XP was fine about it, however.

[azande]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

Apologies if I'm missing the deadpan sarcasm emoticon, but no, it's not OK. As far as I'm aware, the OS will fail the registration procedure if you try to register twice on machines with different motherboards. (There's an appeal procedure - but you have to convince Microsoft that it's no longer possible to get a replacement motherboard of the same type. Or something like that). And you're only allowed 2 or 3 "major" changes (e.g. CPU type, memory, HD) in a certain time period (something like 3 months) or it will fail to start up.

Though there is actually a certain logic to your suggestion, I don't think Microsoft agree...

I've "up-cloned" my HD from 40GB to 120GB and XP was fine about it, however.

And you still pay for Micro$**t products?!?!

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by azande

And you still pay for Micro$**t products?!?!

Of course, the issue doesn't arise with Apple, 'cos it's not like you can go and change your motherboard for the latest special from MSI, can you? And how many times has Apple charged just for upgrades to OS X now? Plus OS X (Intel) looks like it's going to be so far in bed with DRM it will need a marriage certificate. So best bet is OS X is going to be even worse than Windows in that respect.

[Clive Long]

Originally Posted by azande

And you still pay for Micro$**t products?!?!

I would dearly love to run exclusively (ooh that's screaming for a split infinitive) a Linux desktop.

There are some amazingly sophisticated and stable applications that run natively under Linux (and probably other environments) for example Open Office that I believe at version 2.0 can read all the MS Office formats. I must be able to read and manipulate accurately Word and Excel files sent to me.

I have played with GIMP to do some incredibly simplistic image manipulation and get the feeling it is a rich, deep and extensible application.

I can run Skype client, Audacity, VNC, Yahoo IM all natively under Linux.

Linux on a laptop is my file server and backup device. Linux does not hang. Linux does not crash. (ok maybe pushing it a tinsy bit)

Unfortunately there are some applications that, I believe, only run on Micro$**t OS and/or their file formats are not readable by functionally equivalent open source options

For me:

• MS-Project
• QuickenXG
• The scanner driver for my HP model
• The Map loading app into my (very old) Palm Pilot
• and some games

Also if I go to a client they will accept my WinXP laptop within their network if I load their security / anti-virus stuff.

Hence, I retain reluctantly a WinXP laptop.

I know Wine exists to run Windows apps within Linux but it looks a fearsome job to set it up and I ain't got the time to pour into that.

Clive

[Clive Long]

Originally Posted by Russell Saxby

Hi Clive

Don't know the answers to your questions I am afraid - just thought I would chip in and say that I found Windows ME a real mare, used to hang all the time esp when I had Norton on the pc.

I ended up loaded XP Home and now use McAfee - all in all a much happier computing experience.

Good luck

Russell

That is reassuring and gives me confidence we are going in the right direction. I have a stick of 128Mb knocking around that might be compatible with his motherboard - we'll stick that in his m/c and see how the baby runs.

And 3 McAfee licences at £49 rather than £39 per Norton instance - we'll be following your path Russell.

I will soon have my 5th spare mouse. David Franklin - you diamond geezer.

CRL

[azande]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

Of course, the issue doesn't arise with Apple, 'cos it's not like you can go and change your motherboard for the latest special from MSI, can you? And how many times has Apple charged just for upgrades to OS X now? Plus OS X (Intel) looks like it's going to be so far in bed with DRM it will need a marriage certificate. So best bet is OS X is going to be even worse than Windows in that respect.

Regarding the DRM issue, have a look at this article.

The article is from the bginning of August and there is a link at the bottom of the article pointing to Longhorn/Vista TPM. The link is broken but you can have a look at this

We are at number four in terms of paying upgrades to the OS, I've only paid for two, 10.1 and 10.3. Nothing forces you to upgrade, Apple still release security updates not only for the current .x version, and I can istall my copy of OS X on as many computers as I like (as long as it is only one at a time as the T&Cs state).

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by azande

We are at number four in terms of paying upgrades to the OS, I've only paid for two, 10.1 and 10.3. Nothing forces you to upgrade, Apple still release security updates not only for the current .x version, and I can istall my copy of OS X on as many computers as I like (as long as it is only one at a time as the T&Cs state).

Unless you are a software developer, in which case you need to ensure compatibility etc. Seems every time Apple upgrades the OS, we have a new set of non-trivial changes to make. Still, at least with OS X the Mac finally has memory protection, only a few years after Windows.

Seriously - the Mac does a lot of stuff right, but it certainly isn't perfect. And Mac evangelists tend to keep more than a little quiet about the problems. I mean, I actually didn't believe the person who told me about the memory protection thing - because that was a seriously lacklustre piece of design, and yet no-one on the Mac side ever seemed to talk about it. (Or for a more up-to-date issue, the whole about-face on x86 after insisting PowerPC was faster).

Conversely, Windows XP is a lot more stable than people give it credit for these days. (Internet Explorer, however, is still a complete and utter disaster).

[azande]

I'm not a software developer, just a user, but I'm assuming (and correct me if I'm wrong) that compatibility is an issue indipendent of the OS.

I actually don't believe in benchmark tests to support one microprocessor or the other, I just go by usability, UI, availability of good software and stability.
I use Windows every day at work and a Mac at home, I started using computers with DOS and Norton Commander ( ) and is only through experience that I choose to use Apple products above Microsoft.

Linux is a case apart, I would like to be able to learn how to use it it but to be honest I really can't be arsed, I'd rather spend the time learning something else. And on OS X I can use all the mainstream Unix tools (Vi, Emacs, Apache, etc.).
I have a copy of Ubuntu, which according to what I read on the Web is the easier distro to install and the one that gives less headaches to non-geeks (yeah right, like I'm not one ) but it is still in the envelope it came in. Maybe one day....

[WittyBird]

Originally Posted by Clive Long

I have played with GIMP to do some incredibly simplistic image manipulation and get the feeling it is a rich, deep and extensible application.

I bet you have played with GIMP...
Sweetie you need (with all due respect) to obtain proper information and liberate it from ' recognised sources' instead of creating a willy waving contest.

but I am just a girl looking at a thread knowing she can help asking a boy to use the correct channels

[Clive Long]

Originally Posted by wittybird

I bet you have played with GIMP...
Sweetie you need (with all due respect) to obtain proper information and liberate it from ' recognised sources' instead of creating a willy waving contest.

but I am just a girl looking at a thread knowing she can help asking a boy to use the correct channels

What on earth are you going on about?