Its offical - ladies can lead a break!

[Magic Hans]

Originally Posted by Gojive

Brilliant stuff!!

Sometimes, its just easier to go out and try it, rather than sit at home analysing it eh?

You bet!!

[Magic Hans]

Originally Posted by Gadget

My kids ask "Why?" all the time: "Don't lie in the grass." "Why?" "Because it will turn your hair green" "Why?" "because your hair is blonde it will soak up the colour and leave a patch of white grass" "Why?" because paper starts white and you add paint to it to make it green, so if you take that colour away it will be white."...{I have great fun warping my children }

[ ]



What are you dong to your kids????

Sounds like you're getting your own back for all the attention they demand!! ... I know I would!

Glad we seem to agree that both head and heart (or body) want to be involved, guess we'll just have to agree to disagree agreeably about other stuff!!

[MartinHarper]

Has anybody explored the lady, with full agreement, back-leading the man, basically using him as a piece of adaptable and adjustable scenery and support?

If the woman is to have that level of control over the man, I'd imagine it makes more sense for her to lead, rather than backlead and have the guy backfollow. Having agreed on that, there are plenty of figures which involve the lead "showing off", and the follow essentially acting as "scenery and support" - enough to make an entire dance, if that's what the couple desire. It'd require an experienced woman and a patient man, though.

[foxylady]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

There is one way of dancing in which the follower is considered the picture, and the leader the frame. The idea of the frame leading the picture has never sat comfortably with me. Has anybody explored the lady, with full agreement, back-leading the man, basically using him as a piece of adaptable and adjustable scenery and support?

My husband has two left feet (and when you dance with him it feels like about 24), and none of my uni. friends know how to dance, but at weddings and birthday parties etc. I frequently will say to a bloke "let your left hand go limp and just go with whatever I do !" ...
With everyone (except hubby) it works brilliantly, and all the women in the room think the man I am dancing with can dance fantastically !! and I get a bit of MJ out of it (as opposed to my normal wiggle and shake at these types of events....)

[Lory]

Originally Posted by foxylady

My husband has two left feet (and when you dance with him it feels like about 24), and none of my uni. friends know how to dance, but at weddings and birthday parties etc. I frequently will say to a bloke "let your left hand go limp and just go with whatever I do !" ...
With everyone (except hubby) it works brilliantly, and all the women in the room think the man I am dancing with can dance fantastically !! and I get a bit of MJ out of it (as opposed to my normal wiggle and shake at these types of events....)

All I can say is...... Steve... thinks your wonderful!

[Magic Hans]

Originally Posted by Fran

...
One of the hightlights was the section on breaks when Adam discussed the appropriateness of ladies leading a break ...

Leading a break!! Leading a break???

More that leading a break .... how about when the lady blocks herself and does her own spin!!! unbidden!!!! It's outrageous!!!
[sarcastic mode off]

Sincerely though ... I love ladies doing their own thing, and surprising me. I was dancing at Southport at the weekend, was dancing and lead my lady into a first move.

Step back - fine
Step in - good
Turn/Twist out - ok, so far
Twist back - fab
Raise hand and turn under - All of a sudden .... Block!!!

Lady refuses to go under ... by blocking with her (free) left hand against my (raised) left hand ..... and pushes herself into an anti-clockwise spin.

It really took me by (pleasant) surprise!! .... I'd have loved to have seen the look on my face! I had, then, to do some dead simple moves, whilst I recovered from the shock!!

I wish more ladies would do stuff like that for me!

Anyone else .... any thoughts, comments, feelings??

Ian

[Gojive]

Originally Posted by Magic Hans

I love ladies doing their own thing, and surprising me. I was dancing at Southport at the weekend, was dancing and lead my lady into a first move.

Step back - fine
Step in - good
Turn/Twist out - ok, so far
Twist back - fab
Raise hand and turn under - All of a sudden .... Block!!!

Lady refuses to go under ... by blocking with her (free) left hand against my (raised) left hand ..... and pushes herself into an anti-clockwise spin.

It really took me by (pleasant) surprise!! .... I'd have loved to have seen the look on my face! I had, then, to do some dead simple moves, whilst I recovered from the shock!!

I wish more ladies would do stuff like that for me!

Anyone else .... any thoughts, comments, feelings??

One of the girls I dance with at Fleet/Woking does that to me, and I love it!....so much so, that part of our 'game' now involves me deliberately leading her into 'temptation', and then trying to pre-empt her blocking the turn as you described, so that she doesn't catch me out - I think we're just about evens in the scoring at the moment!. Great fun!

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by Magic Hans

Lady refuses to go under ... by blocking with her (free) left hand against my (raised) left hand ..... and pushes herself into an anti-clockwise spin.
{snip}
I wish more ladies would do stuff like that for me!

Originally Posted by Magic Hans

deliberately leading her into 'temptation'

{Originally posted somewhere else}
Some people talk about ladies 'hijacking' the lead, and start doing their own stuff on their own accord. I make a distinction between a lady accepting an invitation lead ( ), and hijacking an indication lead ( then then then and finally )

[MartinHarper]

TRDC teach something similar as an "elbow stop", but I rarely see it in freestyle. Apparently guys, after recognising the hijack, tend to overlead the recovery. I reckon it's a lovely move, but of course it's hard to practice...

[bigdjiver]

I have had only one such blocking experience, and it threw me out of my stride for for the rest of the track. Unfortunately hers was a one-off holiday visit, and I never got the chance to acclimatise in subsequent dances.
I also had one girl tickle me under the chin in a break, which was a wow! moment, but, alas, I have not had the chance to dance with her again either.

[MartinHarper]

Sometimes I get a partner who deliberately "unbalance" herself, or appear to be unbalanced, such that it would require a larger than normal force to lead her in again for the next move. This makes me naturally reluctant to lead her in immediately, so I'm more likely to give her an extra couple of beats to play. I'm not sure how successful this is, though, or how exactly it's done. Also, I need to be dancing with someone who's normally very balanced, such that the off imbalanced moment stands out more.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Sometimes I get a partner who deliberately "unbalance" herself, or appear to be unbalanced, such that it would require a larger than normal force to lead her in again for the next move. This makes me naturally reluctant to lead her in immediately, so I'm more likely to give her an extra couple of beats to play.

That is so weird, it's like using a bad habit as overcompensation or something. I don't think I've ever come across this (or possibly I wasn't paying attention and assumed my partner was, well, unbalanced).
I've got to say, I think that's definitely a poor way to force a break / slowdown, forcing extra effort on the leader's part seems bad practice.

[MartinHarper]

Several women are very good at solo dancing, and they'll stand there doing body rolls and twists and whatnot for the entire song, if I let them. That's cool. Sadly, it often has the feeling of a large soap bubble - very beautiful, bright shimmering colours, but as soon as I touch it, it breaks.

When I see a woman doing something wonderful, when she's dancing with me, my thought is to attempt to add to that. I can't do that effectively if she interprets every lead, however light, as a lead to stop playing. For example, if she's doing some fancy wiggles, and I give her a slight lead to move forward, what I'm hoping to see is those wiggles continuing as she moves forward. What I get is often more like "oh well - play time over - travelling return was it?".

*shrug*

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

When I see a woman doing something wonderful, when she's dancing with me, my thought is to attempt to add to that. I can't do that effectively if she interprets every lead, however light, as a lead to stop playing. For example, if she's doing some fancy wiggles, and I give her a slight lead to move forward, what I'm hoping to see is those wiggles continuing as she moves forward. What I get is often more like "oh well - play time over - travelling return was it?".

Interesting; you get that all the time in salsa; lots of lady shines, going on for, well, 10 minutes or so at a time it seems. But as the man, you pretty much have to just do the basic step and try to keep in time - damned difficult when you're watching all this fantastic footwork, I can tell you.

So yes, it'd be nice to have a "can I play too" lead of some kind.

P.S. We definitely need a "shrug" icon

[Purple Sparkler]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

I also had one girl tickle me under the chin in a break, which was a wow! moment, but, alas, I have not had the chance to dance with her again either.

So stealing that idea. Somebody use a break tonight at Ashtons!

I, personally, love doing lady steals, even though I only know 2, both involving the First Move. One always gets a good reaction (I've mentioned it in Moves from Heaven), but the other one- block the guys arm with your hand when he goes to turn you, and turn the other way, got a confused "Why did you push my wrist?" last night. I think I need to work on that one a bit. But I'm planning on trying to persuade Nicky Haslam to teach me some good 'steals' at MJC, as for the most part, the men I dance with just think it's very cool that I use those kinds of moves.

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Several women are very good at solo dancing, and they'll stand there doing body rolls and twists and whatnot for the entire song, if I let them. That's cool. Sadly, it often has the feeling of a large soap bubble - very beautiful, bright shimmering colours, but as soon as I touch it, it breaks.

I look at it this way. If she wanted to dance a whole song by herself, she would have gone to a nightclub, or a jazz lesson. Presumably if she has come to a Modern Jive night, then she wants to follow a few moves as well.

When I see a woman doing something wonderful, when she's dancing with me, my thought is to attempt to add to that. I can't do that effectively if she interprets every lead, however light, as a lead to stop playing. For example, if she's doing some fancy wiggles, and I give her a slight lead to move forward, what I'm hoping to see is those wiggles continuing as she moves forward. What I get is often more like "oh well - play time over - travelling return was it?".

Most men start leading purely with their hands. As they get better, some learn that using their body as part of the lead can make a big difference. But it is not a pure body lead (as say in ballroom). Instead it is a combination of the hand and the body.
The next stage is learning to isolate these two parts, almost like a beginner does. But instead of moving the hand without the body, you try to move your body without moving your hand.

If only it was as easy to do as it is to describe...