Ceroc style vs technique vs moves

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
And in NZ surveys found that people who did warms ups before class almost all wanted to continue with warm ups before class.

Surveys will prove almost anything that the writer of the survey (and then the people carrying out the survey) want it to prove. I'm not saying it's not what people want, but it's not a fail-safe way.

For example:
Q1. Do you think that we should carry on with the excellent warm-ups, that ensure that before you start the class, your muscles are stretched, thus helping to prevents any pulled or strained muscles.

Q1. We're thinking of doing away with the warm-up, because we don't feel that it's particularly helpful, and we can use the time saved by not doing it, to concentrate on some style and technique tips. What do you think?

It's not a perfect science. But you can see that both sentences are likely to cause different answers.

There's a much better example of this in a Yes Prime Minister sketch, about whether or not National Service should be brought in. But I can't find it online, and I'm not typing it all out. DS, where are you?!

Steve

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by ChrisA
I can assure you there's very little, if even anything, to undo.

Are you wearing the velco trousers again tonight then Chris???

Steve

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Are you wearing the velcro trousers again tonight then Chris???

I thought I might. Worn inside out, they don't half help keep your legs together when spinning.

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Why doesn't Ceroc teach it?
Chris

It does!
at least where I dance. Not every beginners lesson, but in each lesson different bits of style, technique, etiquette and safe dancing are taught. All of it in every lesson would overwhelm most beginners.

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
It does!
at least where I dance.

Hurrah !!

Let's hope it spreads.

Chris

[bigdjiver]

We have started doing warm-ups before the beginners class. I think that the class itself is gentle enough to be used as a natural warm up in itself.

One of the things I hated about being a beginner at Lindy, Salsa and Line dancing was being out of step in the footwork warm ups. Now I see the beginner class going through the same process. At the moment they are all going through the same process and are all over the place. Given a silent video it might be difficult to say who is in step. In a few weeks time I expect to see red-faced newbies struggling with the exercises, and not returning. I do not think they need any more strain put upon them.

Oddly, I thought, the exercises were being done to a Salsa track ?

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
We have started doing warm-ups before the beginners class. I think that the class itself is gentle enough to be used as a natural warm up in itself.

Yeah. Have to agree. If it's just a 'warm-up' thing.

What is there, in a beginner class, that you actually have to warm up for exactly??

In fact, to take it one stage further, depending on what exactly the 'warm-up' is. I'd hazard a guess, that you should probably do the beginners class, to warm up for doing the warm-up. Since I imagine that the warm-up will be more strenuous than (at least) the start of the beginners class...

Steve

[Jon]

Originally posted by Franck
Brilliant move that, and I love it...

I also love teaching it as it always brings the men down a peg or two... Perfect when your class is getting over-confident

Once they've mastered that try the left handed archie spin on them, that'll get em

Or how about a tripple archie spin

[Dan Hudson]

Originally posted by Jon
Once they've mastered that try the left handed archie spin on them, that'll get em

Or how about a tripple archie spin

And how do you suggest we bring YOU down a peg or two Jon??
Me thinks you need it

And BTW have never seen you pull off a triple archie

perhaps its because you have been practising as a blues queen!!

[Jon]

You've been quiet on the forum Dan then you come out with all this abuse.

You should know by now I can't be bought down a peg.

I rarely do tripple archie spins and only do them with ladies that can follow them.

And do I detect a hint of envy in that I can do blues. I've seen you try....

[bobgadjet]

Seems the weather is taking it's toll
Some people are too afraid of it to "go outside" ! ! !

[JamesGeary]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Surveys will prove almost anything that the writer of the survey (and then the people carrying out the survey) want it to prove. I'm not saying it's not what people want, but it's not a fail-safe way.

I don't think thats relevant. The writer of the survey, who carried it out, wanted to find out what their customers wanted so they could more closely tailor what they were offering to what their customers wanted.

This isn't a tobacco company sponsoring research into the effects of tobacco on lungs. This is someone trying to find out what people like or dislike about their classes. That means non-biased questions.

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
~ The writer of the survey, who carried it out, wanted to find out what their customers wanted so they could more closely tailor what they were offering to what their customers wanted.

~ This is someone trying to find out what people like or dislike about their classes. That means non-biased questions.

It also requires a non-biased sample of the customers, much more difficult to achieve. People who like the status quo are more likely to be attending. Most people are reluctant to complain, or be seen as negative, and will agree with "what is", or not bother to register disaproval if it is not a significant issue. On the othewr side of the coin people who like things the way they are often do not bother to say so. It is the ones that really want change that are vociferous.

Salsa, Lindy and Line Dancing all had me tripping over my feet, and feeling out of it, whilst the vast majority of the class were doing it seemingly easily. If MJ had me tripping over my feet in the warm-up too, all other things being equal, I would probably be doing Salsa instead. In fact I had learned to jive by just watching other people and trying it myself before I came to MJ. It was still a daunting learning curve.

[michael]

After a mere seven months doing ceroc i am becoming bored, restless and irritated all at once.

I hear regulars talking of either going to or already at other dance styles. Often that means ceroc have some or half that persons income going to another competitor. At a recent dance night unusually for me, i sat down and watched others for inspiration. All i could see was dancers going back and forward in the same old boring way and nothing there to inspire me except Dave H and Brady dancing extremely well together and managing to get the wow factor.

That aside it would appear that after a short while for some, or a couple of years for others we get bored and want change. When starting off as a complete beginner there is overload with loads to do and learn. I hardly feel we need to worry on the beginner score. But why must we have to look elsewhere for inspiration or that something extra. More to the point why do we feel we have to knock something else that is introduced or given attention. We get a video on Dips and Drops followed by all the negative talk particularly the danger aspect. I go to three different venues and the vast majority of accidents i have seen are caused by moving back and forward etc either standing on heels or worse, elbows in the face (seeing it more often recently). Down South you have Mikeys strictly sinful classes bringing something new followed by negative talk. We get New Zealand aspects followed by more negatives. We get moves from down under followed by negative talk of their lack of musicality or whatever. Then we get this topic!!!!

Why cant ceroc incorporate more salso, tango, hip hop and west coast aspects into existing ceroc moves. Why not incorporate anything that brings style and movement that would enhance modern jive and make it more interesting and exciting!!!

One other important aspect is looking after ALL the dancers and keeping their interest in ceroc at a high level. I hear Simon White has now moved to Ceroc. I would like to thank him for producing his monthly video of previous intermeddiate classes on the web for all to see. I JUST WISH CEROC WOULD D0 THE SAME BIG TIME. BE MORE PRO-ACTIVE AND PRODUCE HUNDREDS OF CLIPS OF VARIOUS MOVES FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY ON A WEB SITE FOR US ALL TO SEE. No excuses please, Ceroc would be more likely to GAIN MORE BUSINESS AND allow those who dont want to wait for a class to see a move they may or may not like. It may not produce better dancers since the moves have to be done properly, but it would certainly stop us guys that get fed up with the same boring moves to seek out new ones WHEN WE WANT TO and then go to the classes and monthly dances in a positive and exciting mood or whatever.

Sure workshops are there to do that and more and if you are interested and can afford the TIME AS WELL AS THE MONEY then fine. Those that don't go (a lot of cerocers) can at least sit in the comfort of their own home and watch the various dance class clips. They will benefit from doing so and so will ceroc. Taking it a stage further why not select those known for their ceroc style to do clips of their classes in the way they do the moves and others with different styles likewise. Then it may stop many of the better dancers moving elswhere for inspiration or ideas. CEROC is great fun for beginners because they can progress at pace and the more often they go the quicker the progress. Some people are happy to do the same old moves for years on end, others are not.

After a while some of us need access to more moves. Un-usual ones, standard ones we forget, simple ones we overlook, stylish ones we didnt know existed and really difficult ones to challange us. SO WHY NOT GET THEM ALL ON VIDEO and look to the longer term benefits it may well bring to Ceroc. In doing so this thread may not be necessary!!!!

Sorry for the long post but it has been a while since last one

PS Sheena and Linda must surely be re-named "THE LUNATIC CREW" What with heavy snow forecast on Tuesday past, you would have thought they would have passed on Jumping Jacks opening night. I mean Dundee to Glasgow!!! and back. DIE HARDS INDEED WELL DONE

[Gary]

Originally posted by michael
After a mere seven months doing ceroc i am becoming bored, restless and irritated all at once.

...

That aside it would appear that after a short while for some, or a couple of years for others we get bored and want change.

I don't know if it's that I'm a dull person who doesn't get bored easily, or if there's a great MJ scene in Sydney, but I've been going for three years (about three times a week for the last year) and am not even close to getting bored.

I admit to having tried one Lindy class, but that's more due to none-too-subtle pressure from some Lindy'ers I know than due to boredom.

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by michael
After a mere seven months doing ceroc i am becoming bored, restless and irritated all at once.

I hear regulars talking of either going to or already at other dance styles. ~ it would appear that after a short while for some, or a couple of years for others we get bored and want change. ~

Is the venue emptying? Are the spaces obvious? Or is Ceroc continuing to do what it has done so successfully for so long, introduce people to MJ and give them some great nights out. It is called focus.

More to the point why do we feel we have to knock something else that is introduced or given attention. We get a video on Dips and Drops followed by all the negative talk particularly the danger aspect. I go to three different venues and the vast majority of accidents i have seen are caused by moving back and forward etc either standing on heels or worse, elbows in the face (seeing it more often recently).
So the danger talk on dips and drops works then?

Down South you have Mikeys strictly sinful classes bringing something new followed by negative talk. We get New Zealand aspects followed by more negatives. We get moves from down under followed by negative talk of their lack of musicality or whatever. Then we get this topic!!!!

Why cant ceroc incorporate more salso, tango, hip hop and west coast aspects into existing ceroc moves. Why not incorporate anything that brings style and movement that would enhance modern jive and make it more interesting and exciting!!! One other important aspect is looking after ALL the dancers and keeping their interest in ceroc at a high level. I hear Simon White has now moved to Ceroc.
I believe he no trades as Ceroc Plus, and teaches Lindy too. Perhaps the first swallow of summer? My guess is Ceroc will exploit the opportunities it has created.

I would like to thank him for producing his monthly video of previous intermeddiate classes on the web for all to see. I JUST WISH CEROC WOULD D0 THE SAME BIG TIME. ~
There are many videos out there of different moves and classes. Ceroc has concentrated on teacher led classes. It is called focus. Ceroc has a new top man in Mike Ellard. I believe changes are on the way.

[Jive Brummie]

Originally posted by michael
After a mere seven months doing ceroc i am becoming bored, restless and irritated all at once.

I hear regulars talking of either going to or already at other dance styles. Often that means ceroc have some or half that persons income going to another competitor. At a recent dance night unusually for me, i sat down and watched others for inspiration. All i could see was dancers going back and forward in the same old boring way and nothing there to inspire me except Dave H and Brady dancing extremely well together and managing to get the wow factor.

That aside it would appear that after a short while for some, or a couple of years for others we get bored and want change. When starting off as a complete beginner there is overload with loads to do and learn. I hardly feel we need to worry on the beginner score. But why must we have to look elsewhere for inspiration or that something extra. More to the point why do we feel we have to knock something else that is introduced or given attention. We get a video on Dips and Drops followed by all the negative talk particularly the danger aspect. I go to three different venues and the vast majority of accidents i have seen are caused by moving back and forward etc either standing on heels or worse, elbows in the face (seeing it more often recently). Down South you have Mikeys strictly sinful classes bringing something new followed by negative talk. We get New Zealand aspects followed by more negatives. We get moves from down under followed by negative talk of their lack of musicality or whatever. Then we get this topic!!!!

Why cant ceroc incorporate more salso, tango, hip hop and west coast aspects into existing ceroc moves. Why not incorporate anything that brings style and movement that would enhance modern jive and make it more interesting and exciting!!!

One other important aspect is looking after ALL the dancers and keeping their interest in ceroc at a high level. I hear Simon White has now moved to Ceroc. I would like to thank him for producing his monthly video of previous intermeddiate classes on the web for all to see. I JUST WISH CEROC WOULD D0 THE SAME BIG TIME. BE MORE PRO-ACTIVE AND PRODUCE HUNDREDS OF CLIPS OF VARIOUS MOVES FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY ON A WEB SITE FOR US ALL TO SEE. No excuses please, Ceroc would be more likely to GAIN MORE BUSINESS AND allow those who dont want to wait for a class to see a move they may or may not like. It may not produce better dancers since the moves have to be done properly, but it would certainly stop us guys that get fed up with the same boring moves to seek out new ones WHEN WE WANT TO and then go to the classes and monthly dances in a positive and exciting mood or whatever.

Sure workshops are there to do that and more and if you are interested and can afford the TIME AS WELL AS THE MONEY then fine. Those that don't go (a lot of cerocers) can at least sit in the comfort of their own home and watch the various dance class clips. They will benefit from doing so and so will ceroc. Taking it a stage further why not select those known for their ceroc style to do clips of their classes in the way they do the moves and others with different styles likewise. Then it may stop many of the better dancers moving elswhere for inspiration or ideas. CEROC is great fun for beginners because they can progress at pace and the more often they go the quicker the progress. Some people are happy to do the same old moves for years on end, others are not.

After a while some of us need access to more moves. Un-usual ones, standard ones we forget, simple ones we overlook, stylish ones we didnt know existed and really difficult ones to challange us. SO WHY NOT GET THEM ALL ON VIDEO and look to the longer term benefits it may well bring to Ceroc. In doing so this thread may not be necessary!!!!

Sorry for the long post but it has been a while since last one

PS Sheena and Linda must surely be re-named "THE LUNATIC CREW" What with heavy snow forecast on Tuesday past, you would have thought they would have passed on Jumping Jacks opening night. I mean Dundee to Glasgow!!! and back. DIE HARDS INDEED WELL DONE

I'm struggling a bit with this post Michael. Bored after 7 months??????? Personally, the more i dance ceroc, the more it seems i have to learn. There's always something new to learn but it's up to the individual to find it. Maybe the reason ceroc don't teach in a more latin, salsa or hip hop style is because....it's modern jive I doubt if a hip hop class teaches in a modern jive style to keep it's students??? For me, after i first managed to work out how to do a semi circle to the right/left in time to the music, i then had the problem of remembering the moves...then stringing moves together. Then came the big bad mamma jamma...MUSICAL INTERPRETATION . This is something i'm still working on. In between doing all this i'm trying to ensure that the moves i do know are done correctly and with some style. I think it's probably better to have perfect beginners and some intermediate moves under your belt than to constantly search for new ideas and ways to dance. There's just no point doing a slasa style first move type thing if it feel's or looks plain crap and you can't manage a 'normal' first move. The old walk before you can run adage is springing into my head and i personally feel that i'm not even jogging yet.

James..........

[Jayne]

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
There's just no point doing a slasa style first move type thing if it feel's or looks plain crap and you can't manage a 'normal' first move.

Absolutely! And this is what most of the girls will say to you too!

I personally feel that i'm not even jogging yet.

James, Sweetheart, you're running and have been ever since I met you at Blackpool last year.

J

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
The old walk before you can run adage is springing into my head and i personally feel that i'm not even jogging yet.

Crawling maybe

(Just kidding)

Steve

[Jive Brummie]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Crawling maybe

(Just kidding)

Steve

You're so predictable........