Connection is...

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by NZ Monkey

Jordan and Tatiana made a point of saying that many people thought that having a light connection was better than a heavy one. They stressed that having a strong connection was the thing that was important and specifically taught the basic hand hold so that vitrually the entire palm and all the fingers remained in contact thoughout the patterns.

I know it's WCS, but I can't see how Ceroc would be any different in this respect.

and nobody can really argue that they don't have great connection

Are we talking strong lead or strong connection here? Does the level of connection vary in WCS? I know that lead does in that the man leads the woman forward but doesn't need to continue with the same degree of lead so does this affect the connection?

(Hey, DJs brought lots of AT into this thread, why not have some WCS too?)

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by ducasi

It's easier to tickle with one finger than a whole hand. You can put more subtlety into your connection through fingertips than whole hands.

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

A whole hand connection can lead tilt, and thus lead footwork. A fingertip connection can't. Since MJ is "no footwork", I guess there's no advantage in a whole hand connection on that score, but the possibility is there.

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Once again, "fingertip leading" demonstrates good technique, it's good practice, and it's even usable in a social situation. But it's like riding a bike with no hands - yes, it takes skill, yes, it's great to develop balance, but that doesn't mean it's something you should do all the time.

Neither is it a "necessary development" in your social dancing evolution - "ever lighter leads" is not the be-all and end-all. "Ever-clearer leads", yes, but that's not the same thing.

Originally Posted by NZ Monkey

Jordan and Tatiana made a point of saying that many people thought that having a light connection was better than a heavy one. They stressed that having a strong connection was the thing that was important and specifically taught the basic hand hold so that vitrually the entire palm and all the fingers remained in contact thoughout the patterns.

My point wasn't that you should only use fingertips – especially if you end up tickling your partners!

Different situations require different levels of connection. Sometimes a single fingertip is enough – when you want to communicate a subtle lead, the subtlety of fingertip beats a firm grip. At other times, a full palm-to-palm grip is necessary – drops and lifts usually require that strength of connection.

For most dancing, the standard "fingers in a pint glass" hand-hold is just about perfect.

To add to the connection, either spreading your fingers inside your partner's hand against their palm and fingers, or by resting, lightly your thumb on the back of their fingers, gives you the ability to have both a tension and compression connection simultaneously.

This can add an extra level of precision to your leading.

(Oh, all this is from the point of view of the leader. )

[Caro]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

The problem is the "strong", to lots of people, means death-grips and yanking.
Is "clear" a better descriptive term?

I don't think so, clear doesn't relate to strenght / intensity of connection, i.e. you could perfectly have a very clear fingertip connection.
If I was to look for an other adjective in lieu of strong, I'd say intense - think intensity as a quantity of electric current here. And although you could in theory having a lot of 'current' passing through just one finger, touching through the whole hand and fingers (as NZM said in ref to WCS) just provide more chances to pass on more current.

Originally Posted by Lynn

Are we talking strong lead or strong connection here? Does the level of connection vary in WCS?

Strong connection - you can have a very light lead with a strong connection (may be easier to think tango here for an easier illustration).

And yes the level of connection varies in WCS - that's the key to the whole dance. Example on an right side under arm turn (what's the proper name for that again?), as you are lead forward there is actually very little connection on 2, 3 and 4 - only through the length of your fingers (which must 'cup' the lead's). There's very little tension in your arm at this stage. Then as you square up to anchor, that's when you build up again the connection from your center to your hand.
I lead WCS recently for the first time and it was a fantastic eye-opener to me as to how important is that anchor step and the fact that the follow has to 'sit into her hips' - I could actually feel when it was or wasn't happening. When it wasn't happening, my lead was rubbish - I needed it to initiate the next pattern properly.

As the teacher said (is it Russel?), a triple step on the spot isn't an anchor step.

[NZ Monkey]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Are we talking strong lead or strong connection here?

We're talking about a strong connection. As Caro said, you can have a strong connection and a light lead.

Originally Posted by ducasi

My point wasn't that you should only use fingertips – especially if you end up tickling your partners!

Different situations require different levels of connection. Sometimes a single fingertip is enough – when you want to communicate a subtle lead, the subtlety of fingertip beats a firm grip. At other times, a full palm-to-palm grip is necessary – drops and lifts usually require that strength of connection.

If the alternative to a fingertip lead is a firm grip then I agree with you here, but you don't have to have a firm grip to be using the whole of your hand to connect with your partner. The more of your hand is being connected with your partner the ''louder'' the connection is. In other words, you're more sensitive to what your partner is doing and therefore capable of laeding more subtly to an outside observer.

It doesn't feel quite as ''cool'' as leading by the fingertips because it seems less difficult, but the more I think about it the more I'm becoming convinced that this doesn't matter. The point of a lead is to communicate intentions very clearly to your follower and having a wide connection like the one I described earlier makes a big difference in doing this. Perhaps Caro or another follower who's felt the difference can comment from their side of the experience?

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Caro

Strong connection - you can have a very light lead with a strong connection (may be easier to think tango here for an easier illustration).

Thanks Caro - thinking AT does help as I understand connection better in AT (doesn't mean I can do it sadly!)

Originally Posted by Caro

And yes the level of connection varies in WCS - that's the key to the whole dance. Example on an right side under arm turn (what's the proper name for that again?), as you are lead forward there is actually very little connection on 2, 3 and 4 - only through the length of your fingers (which must 'cup' the lead's). There's very little tension in your arm at this stage. Then as you square up to anchor, that's when you build up again the connection from your center to your hand.

Good, that's what I thought, that the connection varies through different parts of the move and is 'built up' again as you get to the end of the slot. There is soooo much I am learning and have to learn.

Originally Posted by Caro

I lead WCS recently for the first time and it was a fantastic eye-opener to me as to how important is that anchor step and the fact that the follow has to 'sit into her hips' - I could actually feel when it was or wasn't happening. When it wasn't happening, my lead was rubbish - I needed it to initiate the next pattern properly.

Yep, it really helps me understand better what I need to be doing as a follower, when I attempt to lead. And at the end of the anchor step, on the 'and' before the '1' a very slight move of the centre of your frame backwards helps to get that 'intensity' of connection for the lead forward on the 1 (if I've understood it correctly)?

[FirstMove]

So, to summarise this thread so far....

Connection is dancing like Franck, or Dave B. No-one else knows what it is, or if they do then they're not telling.

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Sometimes a single fingertip is enough – when you want to communicate a subtle lead, the subtlety of fingertip beats a firm grip.

Could you give us an example of the sort of move/movement/pattern/thing that you would prefer to communicate with a fingertip lead?

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Could you give us an example of the sort of move/movement/pattern/thing that you would prefer to communicate with a fingertip lead?

Franck has mentioned in workshops how David B can lead things like turns just by "walking" his fingers across the back of his follower.

Inspired by this, (e.g., in a blues-style "sway" position) I have led slow turns and other slight movements with fingertips on my partner's arm or back.

I don't think the subtlety of movement is as easy to convey in a normal handhold.

Another example would be to lead "nothing" where the heightened attention from the follower required for a fingertip lead makes the connection stronger.

It's not something I would use for, say, a pretzel.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Franck has mentioned in workshops how David B can lead things like turns just by "walking" his fingers across the back of his follower.

Yes - it's a lovely move, I've been trying to use that one recently. At the moment, I need a very good follower to help me lead it, but at some point hopefully I'll be able to lead it properly.

But I'm still in the "more contact gives more intense connection" camp. ("intense" is a great description, nice one Caro)

Although, as a learning technique, it's probably a good idea to go through the fingertip phase first, to teach how to lead.

[Caro]

Originally Posted by NZ Monkey

The more of your hand is being connected with your partner the ''louder'' the connection is.

Great one NZM, I really like the idea of sound level as a metaphor for connection.
Finger tip connection = whispering, provided the follow isn't deaf ( ) it can be just as clear as a fuller connection through the whole hand / arm / back / body - depending what the hold (embrace) is.

Originally Posted by NZ Monkey

It doesn't feel quite as ''cool'' as leading by the fingertips because it seems less difficult, but the more I think about it the more I'm becoming convinced that this doesn't matter. The point of a lead is to communicate intentions very clearly to your follower and having a wide connection like the one I described earlier makes a big difference in doing this. Perhaps Caro or another follower who's felt the difference can comment from their side of the experience?

not sure... to me it refers to different dances... since fingertip connection was explicitely forbidden to me by my WCS master ( ), I've never explored what it could look like in WCS. (Wrong would be my guess ).

And it's true that most advanced leads in MJ tend to use the fingertip connection for at least part of most dances.... and it's great fun to explore with them how far they can go in the whispers before we reach the point where I am 'deaf' (i.e. can't follow anymore). I guess this varies a lot with the follows and guys must have good fun trying to find out .
Also it tends to suit better slower and more subtle music (than, say, a dance / pop track where the beat is very loud and thumpy).

I'd struggle to imagine a 'fingertip dance' to a fast, pop / dance track for example, I guess the amount of interfering noise coming from the speed of the dance makes me less likely to hear a whisper.

Originally Posted by Lynn

Yep, it really helps me understand better what I need to be doing as a follower, when I attempt to lead. And at the end of the anchor step, on the 'and' before the '1' a very slight move of the centre of your frame backwards helps to get that 'intensity' of connection for the lead forward on the 1 (if I've understood it correctly)?

Sounds like it Lynn!!! Welcome to the dark side!!!

[Ghost]

Just to add some more metaphors......

Amir uses "profound" instead of strong which I personally like, though it's suited more to Jango / Tango.

"Deep" is good too.

I also like the sound version, but view connction as other's have said as being able to communicate, so I'm more interested in removing / not adding background noise. I differ on the whisper / shouting simply because on an empty dance floor to a slow track it's nice to have the feeling of "whispering" - like being in a library or a cathedral. Whereas other times the feeling of singing along at the top of your voice is more what I want.

I noticed a while ago was the women I found it easiest to get connected with were the ones I found it easiest to chat with. Partly from this is where my "dancing manhattens for a track chatting" came from. I found that if I was losing connection with someone during a dance, concentrating on the feeling of what it would be like if I were talking to them helped a lot. You know the feeling when you've just taken an inbreath to say something - only you say "moves" rather than words.

It's a little different but I've also had dances where I've said aloud what I was leading slightly before I led it (at the women's requests I hastily add) in both Ceroc, Jango and, to my surprise, AT (I've had women telling me which moves to lead in AT ). Again it helps with the feeling of connection.

It's probably easier to try it, than for me to write a few more pages trying to explain it.

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally Posted by Caro

Finger tip connection = whispering, provided the follow isn't deaf ( ) it can be just as clear as a fuller connection through the whole hand / arm / back / body - depending what the hold (embrace) is.

A connection can be a "whisper" regardless of where/how it is applied, even through a whole hand. When the lead (or the follower in some instances) increases the volume, then their partner knows something different is about to happen.

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally Posted by Ghost

It's a little different but I've also had dances where I've said aloud what I was leading slightly before I led it (at the women's requests I hastily add) in both Ceroc, Jango and, to my surprise, AT (I've had women telling me which moves to lead in AT ). Again it helps with the feeling of connection.

It does? How exactly? When I have danced with someone who tells me what move they are away to do, I don't think it's ever made me feel more connected with them

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Tiggerbabe