Moves, which no matter how much you practice them, don't feel right?

[Terpsichorea]

I've noticed that there are certain moves which even though I have taken pains to learn them, never really become part of my repertoire. I make the effort to learn them, but they never really take root. My two non-favourites are pretzelly moves and neckbreaks - they just don't feel right or comfortable to lead, even though I can do them competently.

Anyone else got any non-favourites?

[Caro]

The straightjacket (one where the lady ends up facing the man, both arm in a half nelson behind her back, guy holds both her hands behind her back).

Thanks god very few people lead it (even less lead it well!), but even with a flawless lead it feels so horrible. Complety trapped.

[Double Trouble]

Originally Posted by Terpsichorea

Anyone else got any non-favourites?

I'm with you. I HATE anything Pretzel related. YAWN....!

[Terpsichorea]

Originally Posted by Double Trouble

I'm with you. I HATE anything Pretzel related. YAWN....!

Just out of curiosity, what are your favourite moves for a guy to lead you into? It's weird, a lot of blokes seem to enjoy pretzels, or cross body twisty style moves, but they never seem popular with followers.

[Double Trouble]

Originally Posted by Terpsichorea

Just out of curiosity, what are your favourite moves for a guy to lead you into? It's weird, a lot of blokes seem to enjoy pretzels, or cross body twisty style moves, but they never seem popular with followers.

Completely off thread, but seeing as you asked.

The answer is easy. Anything simple, that I and the leader can add style and finesse to. I can't stand complicated moves where you get your arms in to all sorts of stupid positions. Its like Krypton Factor dancing.

Always remember....K.I.S.S.


















keep it simple, stupid

[Terpsichorea]

Originally Posted by Double Trouble

Completely off thread, but seeing as you asked.

The answer is easy. Anything simple, that I and the leader can add style and finesse to. I can't stand complicated moves where you get your arms in to all sorts of stupid positions. Its like Krypton Factor dancing.

Always remember....K.I.S.S.

















keep it simple, stupid

Its like Krypton Factor dancing

Very true, though, that's often how it seems at an 'Advanced' Class. I wonder why they don't try to teach musicality rather than needlessly complex moves?

[Double Trouble]

Originally Posted by Terpsichorea

Its like Krypton Factor dancing

Very true, though, that's often how it seems at an 'Advanced' Class. I wonder why they don't try to teach musicality rather than needlessly complex moves?

If you look at my sister Troubles recent thread 'teach me something new', they are discussing that very subject there.

We are off topic. Careful....Franzxqk will smack your bottom.

[Terpsichorea]

Originally Posted by Double Trouble

If you look at my sister Troubles recent thread 'teach me something new', they are discussing that very subject there.

We are off topic. Careful....Franzxqk will smack your bottom.

Humph! He'll have to catch me first!

[Gav]

Strange. I've heard a few ladies moan that no-one ever leads pretzels and they love them, I also know a few ladies that love 'almost neck-breaks' (I think ), but I know someone that absolutely HATES them .

With regards to getting the hang of certain moves, sometimes it just clicks. I tried pivot turns and penguin walks in lessons for a year, but could never get it. Nothing seemed right about it. The a very kind bloke and his partner showed me and within about 2 minutes I had it! Suddenly the move I hated the most was one I quite like now.

[Terpsichorea]

Originally Posted by Gav

Strange. I've heard a few ladies moan that no-one ever leads pretzels and they love them, I also know a few ladies that love 'almost neck-breaks' (I think ), but I know someone that absolutely HATES them .

With regards to getting the hang of certain moves, sometimes it just clicks. I tried pivot turns and penguin walks in lessons for a year, but could never get it. Nothing seemed right about it. The a very kind bloke and his partner showed me and within about 2 minutes I had it! Suddenly the move I hated the most was one I quite like now.

I find Penguin Walks quite difficult - at least when trying to do them with a partner! The problem - and I don't know if you've found this - is finding someone with whom you can iron out niggly moves. You can't really introduce them into freestyle because you're still not 100% sure of them, but it's equally difficult to find a willing partner to just go over them with you. Perhaps I need some private lessons....

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Terpsichorea

I find Penguin Walks quite difficult - at least when trying to do them with a partner! The problem - and I don't know if you've found this - is finding someone with whom you can iron out niggly moves. You can't really introduce them into freestyle because you're still not 100% sure of them, but it's equally difficult to find a willing partner to just go over them with you. Perhaps I need some private lessons....

Haha! It's not just me!

Sorry, I do understand how you feel.

Depends on your 'comfort zone'. I can 1/2 learn moves when I'm on my travels and happily make an arse of myself at my local venue getting them wrong, because I'm with friends. Similarly, DT & her sister put up with me fluffing moves too, but I wouldn't even bother trying with strangers.

[Terpsichorea]

Originally Posted by Gav

Haha! It's not just me!

Sorry, I do understand how you feel.

Depends on your 'comfort zone'. I can 1/2 learn moves when I'm on my travels and happily make an arse of myself at my local venue getting them wrong, because I'm with friends. Similarly, DT & her sister put up with me fluffing moves too, but I wouldn't even bother trying with strangers.

I like dancing with people I know, definitely, when trying out new moves. Then it doesn't matter if you make a complete c*ck-up of it, you can have a laugh and say in passing "Well that was a complete success!"

[robd]

Originally Posted by Gav

Similarly, DT & her sister put up with me fluffing ... strangers.

GFP?

[Double Trouble]

Originally Posted by robd

GFP?

Don't knock it Rob. Where there is 'ahem' muck....there is brass.

[robd]

I quite like doing pretzels and pretzel variations if the music is that bit faster than I normally like it but have to say I have never really enquired as to if my partner likes them However I have had positive unsolicited feedback on my leading of them quite often and I guess that's key - most moves are fine if lead well and smoothly and pants if not.

However, answering the original question I have been experimenting with a move I think of as the impossible move. It's from a Mick Wenger routine at MJC in 2004 and is v convoluted - Alice is the person with whom I have had most success leading it but then again it's probably an Aussie beginner's move

Mangles, in their various forms, also never feel right.

[Chef]

Originally Posted by Terpsichorea

I've noticed that there are certain moves which even though I have taken pains to learn them, never really become part of my repertoire. I make the effort to learn them, but they never really take root. My two non-favourites are pretzelly moves and neckbreaks - they just don't feel right or comfortable to lead, even though I can do them competently.

Anyone else got any non-favourites?

ALMOST always if a move doesn't feel comfortable to lead (or follow) then something somwhere is going wrong. Often the place where things are going wrong is in that tiny little detail that the teacher told you but you didn't really appreciate because you were lost in a knot of arms at the time. Once you get the hang of where hands and feet should go then there still seems to be that one thing that is missing that means that the whole thing refuses to flow. If only you could remember what it was that the teacher said.

The best thing to do is to ask the teacher. After that the next best thing is to find a leader and a follower that can do the move with flow and ask both of them to help you.

The next best thing is to find a follower that is willing to help you work things out together. If it feels uncomfortable to you think how it might feel to a follower. Work through every little detail in slow motion and do not gloss over any details. Getting the preceeding part right often makes what is to follow possible and comfortable. Lastly, movements should flow without jolts (even blocking moves) so if it feels like body popping then something should change.

Your follower is extremely valauble in this process. You always end up doing what you do because that is what you know. Your follower has the opportunity to go away and experience the move with someone that can do it well and, if they are observant enough, come back to you and indicate the point where how you are doing it is going wrong. Good followers are very valuable and well worth listening to. They have a vested interest in generating good leaders.

Having said all this there are moves that I really don't like and that is mostly because they are too involved and I find that I can't fit them to music or are just too cheesy. My partner hates any move that is led badly or that messes up her hair (a huge no no) like something called the Barecelona stranglehold.

[Raul]

For guys like me with misspent youth, the names of these moves evoke memories of WWF/WWE (world wrestling federation/entertainment)

Half Nelson
Mangle
Neckbreak
now the Barcelona Stranglehold

the wrestlers had signature "finishing" or killer moves which they invariably tried to do, like the Figure 4 or the Backbreaker.

emm... come to think of it, we do have the Figure 8 and the Backbreaker in MJ

some of the dancers even try the Overhead Throw

Who said dancing is not a Sport?

.

[MartinHarper]

As it happens, I recently had some instruction in a "non-favourite move" that fixed it for me. The move was a swingout (aka whip) with an inside turn. Since learning the move, I'd always found it cramped and awkward. It "worked", in so far as everyone ended up in the right place with all limbs intact, but it wasn't graceful and didn't feel right.
Anyway, the teacher explained a couple of things I was doing wrong and demonstrated what would be better. One was to slightly alter the timing of the move, so that the inside turn came a little later. The other was a detail of positioning that allowed more space. The move feels better now. Once I've practiced this new way of leading it a little more, it should be great.

In other words, Chef's post is bang on the mark, regards uncomfortable moves often being a symptom of something going wrong. I suspect that many of the moves I'm currently less keen on I'd find great if I could get my technique for them fixed. Off the top of my head, that includes drops, lady duck moves, and that man spin with an extra spin. Also, I expect that a fair few moves that I currently dismiss as unleadable choreographed things are actually leadable moves taught badly.

[Chef]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Anyway, the teacher explained a couple of things I was doing wrong and demonstrated what would be better. One was to slightly alter the timing of the move, so that the inside turn came a little later. The other was a detail of positioning that allowed more space. The move feels better now.

Most people get the overall basics of a move at the first lesson. Everyone turns up at their first beginners lessons and gets the basics of the 4 moves and they are recognisable as those 4 moves. It is the small DETAILS that stop it from being cramped, awkward, jarring and lacking flow. The frustration comes because, as you say, no matter how much you practice it it never seems to work right. If you fail to find those small details (or have them explained to you) then you are going to be practicing doing it WRONG for a long time. Some people practice doing a move and make small changes and sometimes stumble across the details that "unlock" the move for them.

The best way is to find someone with a good understanding and an eye for detail to look at what you (and your partner) are doing and explain what to change and why. The explanation as to WHY is most important because it will help your own understanding of what things to look for in the future to avoid problems like these arising again. Some people feel that my approach is far too technical and detracts from the fun element. That may be.

I have a very simplistic view of things. If someone else can do something well then a solution to the problem exists. Through a mixture of observing and asking I can find that solution.

[Yogi_Bear]

Originally Posted by Raul

For guys like me with misspent youth, the names of these moves evoke memories of WWF/WWE (world wrestling federation/entertainment)

Half Nelson
Mangle
Neckbreak
now the Barcelona Stranglehold



.

Is the last one a close relative of the Granada mangle? And why are Spanish cities being drawn on for the names of new MJ moves??