Hand flourishes in MJ...what's the consensus?

[Terpsichorea]

Hi guys, time for another nitpicking post from me, this time on the subject of hand flourishes in MJ. I've noticed that a lot of very proficient MJ exponents such as the chap in this video YouTube - Jamie & Tor Ceroc (a guy called Jamie Storey, who if I'm not mistaken teaches in Leeds) often use a hand gesture when stepping back. Basically, the spare arm is crossed briefly across the chest before going on to the next movement. What I was wondering, is whether this is primarily a follower's move, or can guys do it as well? I've noticed followers doing it when dancing Rock and Roll or Jive in ballroom, and wondered what the consensus is on using it in MJ?

Also, I've noticed that in this particular vid, they're also throwing in a lot of rondes...what's the feeling on these as well?

[straycat]

I'm not a huge fan of that particular style, I have to say. However. It's head and shoulders above the typical 'dead arm' approach (ie completely ignoring the spare hand when it's not in use)

One thing that I have noticed about hand flouishes and the like - they're a very individualistic thing. Example: Viktor does some wonderful little flourishes which look amazing.... when Viktor does them. And they look terrible when most other people do them. It's a case of finding what suits you, and adopting / adapting that.

Rondes - I think they look great when used in the right context (usually suggested by the music. It's easily possible to overdo it though.

I don't know for sure, but my feeling is that the clip would probably look a lot better (to me) with sound - when I can't see how the dance goes with the music, it loses most of the appeal.

[Twirly]

Originally Posted by straycat264

One thing that I have noticed about hand flouishes and the like - they're a very individualistic thing. Example: Viktor does some wonderful little flourishes which look amazing.... when Viktor does them. And they look terrible when most other people do them. It's a case of finding what suits you, and adopting / adapting that.

Rondes - I think they look great when used in the right context (usually suggested by the music. It's easily possible to overdo it though.

At the risk of going off thread... how do you know if what you are doing suits you? Most venues don't have mirrors, so you can't see yourself dance (and God knows, I don't really want to! ). But I do wonder if what I think of as "styling" actually looks any good or not... execpt that I'm too shy to ask - and I doubt that my ego would stand up to being told "no, you look like a pratt"!

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Twirly

At the risk of going off thread... how do you know if what you are doing suits you?

Oooh. Yet another $1,980,240.94USD question (doesn't sound as snappy, but hey - that's today's exchange rate for you)

Question: how much does it matter to you?

Options:
You could experiment 'till it feels good. Vastly more important than how you look anyway, in a social dance.

If you really want to know for sure that you look great, that's where it takes the serious work. Three things come to mind: private lessons with great teachers, find places with mirrors, and make use of 'em, and practice, practice, practice, practice, practice...... there's no escaping or shortcutting this last one. Even if you're naturally very talented & graceful on the dancefloor (which, alas, most of us are not)

On the feeling good note - if a flourish or piece of styling feels completely natural and fun, chances are it's going to look a lot better than anything you're still having to consciously think about doing. However, there're no real guarantees without getting a lot more serious about it (alas)

[Miss Marmite]

Too True - I have danced with a couple of leaders who actually feel very good to dance with, in time etc. However when i stand back and watch them on the dancefloor the look rather odd.

Both have been dancing for some time (between 2 and 5 years) and the only thing i can think of (more like story i have constructed in my own head) is that they were doing perfectly well and then decided they wanted to develop their own particular "style".

I am of the opinion that it either comes naturally or it doesn't - there are just some things you can't teach!

[robd]

Originally Posted by Miss Marmite

I am of the opinion that it either comes naturally or it doesn't - there are just some things you can't teach!

True but I don't think dancing style is one of them. You can teach it. Whether your students are able to pick it up and put into practice what you are teaching is a different matter.

Take spare arms as a for instance. A 'latin' styled spare arm movement can add a great deal of style to a follower IMO and I tend to find it quite easy often to tell if a follower has or has not done some latin dancing on the basis of how they use their spare arm for styling. Yet the principles for this styling are going to be pretty well established (taking arms in before going out, extending through to the fingertips, etc) and there's no reason why these couldn't be taught in MJ (and occasionally are) but does this mean all the dancers will suddenly look as graceful as some of the people I am thinking of - Lily, Lisa, Sparkles, etc? No, probably not but they could be taught it.

My personal POV is that style is both personal and subjective. Someone was bang on in a post above about Viktor - he does some things that look so cool for him but would look daft if replicated by others. I tend to have a 'dead' spare arm and an alarming tendency to have a fist of bananas for fingers. I sometimes think about these whilst dancing and make an effort to do something with them but not very often. Sometimes also, a nice style point is diluted or ruined even by over-use e.g rondes.

I think one style point that so many men could adopt immediately with alarmingly little effort and that would improve the look of their dance immensely is to just stand up straight.

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Terpsichorea

Basically, the spare arm is crossed briefly across the chest before going on to the next movement. What I was wondering, is whether this is primarily a follower's move, or can guys do it as well?

In the clip, the spare arm is crossed across the chest mostly as a continuation of the previous movement (for example, a clockwise spin). Leaders can do the same thing, by using their spare arm as an extension of their own rotational momentum. Since leaders don't tend to rotate as much or as often, it would be a less frequent styling.

[Cruella]

For those that are unaware, the video is of our very own forumites 'Jamie' And Tor 'Dai'
He gets everywhere!!

[fletch]

Originally Posted by Cruella

For those that are unaware, the video is of our very own forumites 'Jamie' And Tor 'Dai'
He gets everywhere!!

yes it also looks like 'the monster Jive' in derby, you can see Wes walking across the vidio

[StokeBloke]

Originally Posted by robd

I think one style point that so many men could adopt immediately with alarmingly little effort and that would improve the look of their dance immensely is to just stand up straight.

This is something I have to constantly tell myself when dancing. I HATE that gypo on the waltzers look!! Another good tip I heard was to try not to let your spare hand drop below your waist.

[Jamie]

I hate my spare arm on that vid I've since improved it, it's like Dizzy said you don't know what u look like until you see yourself filmed, which was the reason for the clip.

It's much more controlled now

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I hate my spare arm on that vid

How come?

[Yliander]

I don't mind the spare arm- but I do like a bit more variety in what the spare arm does.

Any form of styling should be a choice rather than just what you do.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Terpsichorea

Hi guys, time for another nitpicking post from me, this time on the subject of hand flourishes in MJ.

If you like what other people do, copy it. But most importantly, don't worry about how it looks. The second you worry about how it looks, you'll do it half-heartedly and then it will almost certainly look bad. Also, don't forget that unless you're competing it's not about how it looks to others, but how it feels to you.

I've left the floor after a fantastic dance to be told it looked awful. I don't care, I loved it.

Originally Posted by Jamie

I hate my spare arm on that vid

I hate my spare arm in bed Is it just me or does anyone else find that 3 arms in bed would be better than 4?

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

How come?

I constantly do the same thing with it, I just fling it (almost uncontrolled) across my chest most of the dance! It felt natural to do, but after seeing myself on camera I decided to change it.

[StokeBloke]

Originally Posted by Gav

Is it just me or does anyone else find that 3 arms in bed would be better than 4?

You should try six

[Gav]

Originally Posted by StokeBloke

You should try six

Stokie, I didn't know you liked me that way. Anytime big boy

[Twirly]

Originally Posted by straycat264

You could experiment 'till it feels good. Vastly more important than how you look anyway, in a social dance.

Right, I'm keeping that nice, warm, comfy piece of wool firmly over my eyes - my styling is fabulous darling!

[StokeBloke]

Originally Posted by Gav

Stokie, I didn't know you liked me that way. Anytime big boy

Been looking over my shoulder have you Gav

[Gav]

Originally Posted by StokeBloke

Been looking over my shoulder have you Gav

Just been listening to the rumours