Intermediates Classes - the plateau

[Jon L]

in the last two to three months - I have begun to notice that I am not learning new things in intermediate classes (I have been dancing 3 years 4 months now). Although the move might be varied, it can go in one ear and out the other.

I still can learn from the specialist workshops, and things like Bognor Camber where the jive is up a level,

Is this common with other dancers of similar experience??

[Chris]

I would imagine it might be pretty universal. But we all have lots of plateaus too and they work out eventually, whether through specialist classes or making a list of one's own faults-to-overcome and improvements-to-be-made or by going along to the beginners' class and just experimenting with style (great fun cos no-one notices much!) Taxi dancing's fun for a while too, or just getting together with friends and swapping ideas. Dancing in a lot of different areas as someone (Mikey?) said is also an eye-opener.

Interesting thread - be keen to see people's ideas on getting through 'plateaus'.

[Gadget]

What to do when you reach a plateu?
To get out of it you need some inspiration. Finding it could be as simple as watching a video or your local guru on the floor.
But what you want to do is find a specific area of your dancing to work on, and develop it.
Which area?
Since I’ve been talking a lot about leading and style recently, I’m going to concentrate on that aspect,, but it could be musicality, body position, close moves, distance moves, gentle leading, first move variations, backwards moves, slides ,off-hand style, …
How?
Firstly by looking at what you do,. Then by watching others and looking for specifics from the teacher on stage and trying what they are doing. Only incorporate what works for you, and adapt what you like, but doesn't work.
BTW, If you’re playing with stuff during free-style, you should at least warn your partner.

Alternatively, give it a break - go and try another dance style to come back refreshed and with new ideas.

[Lou]

As mentioned previously - try different venues/teachers to your usual.

However, the one thing that helped my plateau was learning to dance the other role, although I can appreciate that a man might feel somewhat awkward dancing with other men in the class environment...

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Jon L
in the last two to three months - I have begun to notice that I am not learning new things in intermediate classes (I have been dancing 3 years 4 months now). Although the move might be varied, it can go in one ear and out the other.

I still can learn from the specialist workshops, and things like Bognor Camber where the jive is up a level,

Is this common with other dancers of similar experience??

I was getting so plateaued out about 18 months ago that I was within inches of giving up completely. Fortunately I discovered why I was getting funny looks from some of the better ladies - I was failing to notice all the breaks and accents in the music, and not allowing my partners enough space to be musical themselves. Doh :sorry

It was in one of Amir's classes that I finally got a handle on how to start listening - and then dancing - to the music and it's been onward and upward since then.

In terms of musicality, I still feel like I'm at "amoeba level", but I can feel the improvement in myself, and I'm also getting the impression that my partners are enjoying dancing with me a bit more. This is a million times more interesting, and, might I say exciting, than learning any number of complicated moves.

Now that I have at least a finger-nail grip on how to learn how to dance more musically, there's no sign of any plateau now. It's turned me into a bit of an obsessive 4-nights-a-week-er though

Chris

[Forte]

Originally posted by Lou
As mentioned previously - try different venues/teachers to your usual.

However, the one thing that helped my plateau was learning to dance the other role, although I can appreciate that a man might feel somewhat awkward dancing with other men in the class environment...

TheTramp doesn't....and it's fun to watch...

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Forte
TheTramp doesn't....and it's fun to watch...

Actually, that's not quite true. I did once join a class as a follower (there were lots of men over *gasp*). And it was quite funny, watching some of the men count ahead, and drop out when they realised that they were about to get me as a partner

It's in freestyle that I sometimes dance with another bloke (Or two. Or three ). Usually just for a bit of fun. It's quite nice sometimes to have a change. There's quite a lot of guys up in Scotland who'll give that a go - Franck, Brady, James, DS to name a few - and Bill who'll even dress the part

Steve

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Actually, that's not quite true. I did once join a class as a follower (there were lots of men over *gasp*). And it was quite funny, watching some of the men count ahead, and drop out when they realised that they were about to get me as a partner

Even in Brighton we can't be a follower and do moving on in a lesson. Some guys just don't like it

But I often swap with a woman that can lead during the lesson and I've occasionally been fixed partners with a woman or man and take it in turns to be leader/follower.

Originally posted by TheTramp
It's in freestyle that I sometimes dance with another bloke (Or two. Or three ). Usually just for a bit of fun. It's quite nice sometimes to have a change. There's quite a lot of guys up in Scotland who'll give that a go - Franck, Brady, James, DS to name a few - and Bill who'll even dress the part

Steve

I've been Steve's partner loads of times. We even came 4th in Double Trouble in Blackpool with Rob Coward. It's a great laugh to dance with another man. And, more importantly, you learn a lot by following and when you actually have it done to you, you can get a much better idea of what men are doing that you aren't.

On the subject of getting past a plateau I've been there loads of times. You feel like you're learning nothing new and not making any progress. I've found doing all the lessons, including the beginners, has made a difference. Also, going to other classes like Hipsters introduces new ideas about lead and follow and musicality. And I get new moves - probably more than I can remember

The other thing I've found about a plateau is that it isn't really flat. You're making progress, it's just that you don't notice it. Only the day before yesterday one of my frequent partners said I'd changed the way I lead - I had no idea. I also didn't have the guts to ask if the change was for the better

[Jon]

I agree with Andy in that you may think you've stopped learning but you haven't really. I've found that things I saw or was taught 6 months ago and dismissed for whatever reason all of a sudden I'm doing them and they are improving my dancing.

Also dancing the other role is fantastic fun but I've only done it with a lady leading. It really teaches a guy 1. How to spin properly and 2. what feels nice for the lady. Once you know whats nice then you can link moves smoothly together.

The other thing is it's not always doing workshops that help with ideas, just watching people dancing and seeing how they do moves that you already know. How is their posture etc and then trying it out and seeing what suits your style.

Of course the best place to improve is Camber!

[JamesGeary]

I also used to find when was stuck on a plateau that doing lessons from a different teacher would help give me new ideas.

Or else some classes in another style of dance and trying to incorporate the movement style back into my jive/ceroc.

But as a man the best thing you can do is dance as a woman with Will. He likes dancing with other guys, and because of his good lead you'll really improve.

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Jon
Of course the best place to improve is Camber!

But only if you get more than 26 minutes sleep

I blame the DJs. If they'd stop playing I'd stop dancing

[TheTramp]

I blame the dancers. If you'd all bugger off to bed, then I wouldn't have to stay there, playing music!!

Steve

[Forte]

I would love to get some answers to my plateau question. After years of single (non partner) dance classes where you are choreographed to the nth degree..even to the precise tilt of your head and angle of your arm etc I am having trouble loosening up and finding "My" style. I have spoken to Brady about this and he knows of another girl with this problem but I didn't really get enough time to ask for suggestions on how to move on from this.

It's like I need to give myself permission to do freestyle with my own little interpretations. I still need and want to be told how exactly to do it. I can dance, am not shy but when I get the chance to do a bit of freestyle I freeze and say to the guy "What do I do now?" It's something I need to solve.
I am better in workshops. I loved Adam's workshop where he choreographed a dance to "Latin Lover". It's as if I need the security of a rehearsed routine but the funny thing is once I know the moves I start adding some pzazz to them and I get praised for it!
How do I start adding pzazz to one-off freestyle dances when I don't get to do it again?

Is it just a confidence thing?

[TheTramp]

I suggest that one way of improving, is to watch other female dancers whose style you like, and try to pick up on some of the things that they do.

There are so many good Scottish female dancers that you shouldn't really have any problems in finding them.

I know that it's what I did when I was learning (watched the good male dancers). I still occasionally find myself doing certain moves 'in the style of' someone else

Steve

[Graham]

Originally posted by TheTramp
I know that it's what I did when I was learning (watched the good male dancers). I still occasionally find myself doing certain moves 'in the style of' someone else

That sounds like a great theme for a competition - Advanced dancing in the style of Franck Pauly, for example!

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Forte
After years of single (non partner) dance classes where you are choreographed to the nth degree...I am having trouble loosening up and finding "My" style

I've danced with lots of beginner jivers with a ballet/jazz/other choreographed dance background, and this is very common.

Although they are invariably beautifully coordinated, spin better on day 1 than I'll ever be able to, look fab, etc, etc, they find it hard to establish a connection with their partner - for precisely the reasons you give - so much individual pattern learning that learning to dance with someone when you don't know what's happening ahead of time becomes difficult.

I'd be inclined to stop worrying about style completely until that connection is there to the extent that you no longer have to think about it.

Originally posted by Forte
It's as if I need the security of a rehearsed routine but the funny thing is once I know the moves I start adding some pzazz to them and I get praised for it!

See? It's not that you can't do it.

I would bet that the plateau you're talking about will evaporate once you're more confident dancing as a partner.

On a related note, it's also down to the guys to give you space to strut your stuff at an appropriate point in the music.

I've discovered this just recently as an area that I need to work on big time - dancing musically mean I also need to give my lady the space to do her thing too.

HTH,
Chris

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Graham
That sounds like a great theme for a competition - Advanced dancing in the style of Franck Pauly, for example!

Comb spin, followed by a long comb, followed by a left handed comb, followed by an accordian duck comb, followed by a... Are you getting the idea?

Steve

[Will]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
But as a man the best thing you can do is dance as a woman with Will. He likes dancing with other guys, and because of his good lead you'll really improve.

:reallymad

GEARY! Did you enjoy your time in England? Do you fancy coming back? It would be a shame if someone anonymously tipped off customs at Heathrow airport when you fly back in, that you've "Crotched" some drugs.

I suspect that flying in from NZ, you'll be coming into Terminal 2. Lucky you! I hear that the man with the RUBBER GLOVE in T2 isn't particularly gentle.

Will

P.S. I've told Steve Lampert about all those nasty things you've been saying about him, saying he lied about being any good at marshal arts and that he'd lose a fight with his own shadow. He's looking forward to getting his hands on you almost as much as Fabio at Heathrow Customs is.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by TheTramp
I still occasionally find myself doing certain moves 'in the style of' someone else

You shouldn't demo Steve: I caught myself doing a couple of moves with "tramp style" before I could stop it {arm accross front, body step with head snap sort of thing... I almost had to stop dancing. }

I also try to avoid the "Franck" thing with the shoulder shimmy, 'expressive' face and puppy-like enthusiasm: no-one can do it like him

I've tried Dave's cool slides and nonchalant style, but I'm not cool enough.

Bill's body leads and dance floor "involvement" with his partners tends to head me towards slapping territory.

A friend once described my style as a cross between The Mask's dancing and Zorro's dancing - I think he was trying to say I should wear a bag over my head

Actually, that might make a cool caberet(/standup) routine - "I will now dance in the style of XXX"