Does your nearest MJ class teach the Semi-Circle?

[dep]

I thought the semi-C was as good as a Ceroc trademark.
If any non Ceroc organisations even thought of copying it, wouldn't they be seen as giving in to the Ceroc method? Even beneath them to be tarred as Ceroc copyists.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by DundeeDancer

What do people use instead, do the just push away there partners arm hoping they'll step back

Put yourself in the mind of a total beginner follower.

If someone is holding your right hand, then waves it around in a semi-circle, why would you naturally or instinctively step back?

If someone pushes on your hand, however, there's a chance you may step back, to relieve the pressure.

See the difference? One is a "code" signal, you need to know the code to interpret it. The other is a "lead" signal - your action is a more natural one based on a more natural action.

[straycat]

Originally Posted by TheTramp

So, if you don't do the semi-circle, don't kid yourself that you're the best thing since sliced bread

Which raises an interesting point - what exactly is so great about sliced bread? I'm sure it was seen as a wonderful innovation once upon a time, but let's be honest - most of it might as well be cardboard for all the flavour it has...

Maybe this saying needs to be brought up-to-date?

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by straycat

Which raises an interesting point - what exactly is so great about sliced bread? I'm sure it was seen as a wonderful innovation once upon a time, but let's be honest - most of it might as well be cardboard for all the flavour it has...

Maybe this saying needs to be brought up-to-date?

Try Hovis Seed Sensation (Light & Nutty) – it's yummy! Especially when toasted!

[Gus]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

On this occasion Gus is arguing from the weak position. This requires better debating skills. Does Gus have them? At the moment Gus is trying smoke screen distractions by diverting the debate to ancient competitions that were held on the other side of the planet. But those distractions do not support his case in any way - but they might distract me from my position of strength

Pot kettle Black? Ever going to let verified fact get in the way of one of your sermons ... or too busy dissing Ceroc, from whom you owe everything? ()

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Gus

Pot kettle Black? Ever going to let verified fact get in the way of one of your sermons ... or too busy dissing Ceroc, from whom you owe everything? ()

I don't "diss" (whatever that means in Northern Street parlance) Ceroc. I have recently been dissing the results of bad teaching that I've observed in students visiting my classes. Without exception, not one of them was taught at a Ceroc class.

On the suject of who I "owe everything". I believe I owe John Travolta as Tony Manero on Saturday Night Fever for inspiring to go to dance classes. Although I was earlier inspired by Grant Santino, UK Disco dance champion and, having attended no classes, actually won the odd disco dance competition in NW London and Brighton. I owe my main Ballroom Teacher, Doris Myers for helping me get to grips with partner dancing. I owe Graham LeClerc from LeRoc Brighton for introducing me to Modern Jive (and the semi-circle ). I owe Franco for introducing me to weekenders. I owe Nigel and Nina for teaching me some interesting moves and introducing me to beter music for MJ. I owe Amir for teaching me technique. I owe Kate for teaching me Ladies styling and I owe Viktor for teaching me how to be sexy Not one of those things was at a Ceroc class.

To be realistic, those people who taught me MJ were probably influenced by Ceroc. But they were not working for Ceroc at the time and may have left the collective in order to teach differently.

Owe Ceroc? That's a bit like saying that any restaurant that serves burgers should pay homage at the golden arches of McDonalds.

[Martin]

Originally Posted by Gus

Pot kettle Black? Ever going to let verified fact get in the way of one of your sermons ... or too busy dissing Ceroc, from whom you owe everything? ()

Just a small point - from my experience, Andy does not owe everything to Ceroc, as he did not at first learn Ceroc.

I also did not first learn Ceroc.

We both did MJ at various venues. Some of these venues we visited in later days were Ceroc.

The better venues were Ceroc with a twist - Victor, Mike etc.

The independants also offered something, plus other dance classes.

You often bang on about CTA trained... then you went on to teach outside of "Ceroc".

So get the kettle in order and work out what is black and what is white!

[bigdjiver]

Originally Posted by straycat

Which raises an interesting point - what exactly is so great about sliced bread? I'm sure it was seen as a wonderful innovation once upon a time, but let's be honest - most of it might as well be cardboard for all the flavour it has...

My Chemistry master said that bread lasts longer now because most of the nutrients have been removed, and any germs trying to live off it die of starvation.

[Gus]

Originally Posted by Martin

You often bang on about CTA trained... then you went on to teach outside of "Ceroc".

So get the kettle in order and work out what is black and what is white!

I maintain that the CTA training is the best foundation training I've seen in MJ ... however, at the time I broke away Ceroc was far too restrictive ... it was the same time that Viktor, Joseph and many others left (think about 12 CTA instructors left over 3 months). CTA gives a good foundation but if you want to improve .... you have to find your own way.

My personal view is that the small number of CTA instructors blow away most of the independent instructors in the region for actually teaching good MJ. There are always going to be exceptions, but thats been my experience.

FWIW ... there is an huge gulf between an instructor standing on stage spouting about T&C and correct footwork, and actually being able to teach it!

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Martin

So get the kettle in order and work out what is black and what is white!

Easy. White = untoasted sliced bread. Black = burned sliced bread. (for which you could use a kettle, I'll grant you, but a toaster is better, and gets you a more even burn)

FYI
[EDIT - using a kettle may well, I grant you, give you a more circular burn pattern, which would be more in keeping with the topic under discussion. Although it may harm the kettle. So be warned]

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Gus

I maintain that the CTA training is the best foundation training I've seen in MJ ...

-snip-

FWIW ... there is an huge gulf between an instructor standing on stage spouting about T&C and correct footwork, and actually being able to teach it!

I've NEVER heard any Ceroc teacher talking about tension and compression or footwork. I have heard some of them say "it doesn't matter which foot" and I've heard many of them say "semi-circle to the left and both step back". I wonder if that's what Gus means us to take as an example of the great product of the mighty CTA?

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Gus

My personal view is that the small number of CTA instructors blow away most of the independent instructors in the region for actually teaching good MJ. There are always going to be exceptions, but thats been my experience.

So there you have it. From an ex-CTA graduate. They are "teaching good MJ". And, as they are teaching "it doesn't matter which foot" and "semi-circle to the left and both step back", this must be what Gus thinks is "good MJ".

Now we know :deadpan smiley:

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

I've NEVER heard any Ceroc teacher talking about tension and compression or footwork.

Strangely enough, I have. Point of fact - when I first started Ceroc, every beginners lesson I attended began with a simple T&C exercise, and it was extremely helpful for beginner leads (probably for follows also) Wonder what happened to that...

[TheTramp]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

I've NEVER heard any .... I have heard some of them say .... and I've heard many of them say .....

OKie Andy. How many ceroc teachers have you actually seen teach?

And how many in the last 3 years?

Just out of interest you understand....

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by TheTramp

OKie Andy. How many ceroc teachers have you actually seen teach?

And how many in the last 3 years?

Just out of interest you understand....

I the last 3 years, not many. In the last 3 years I've attended Ceroc venues in:

St Neots (The Tramp was also there)
Horsham
Brighton
Haywards Heath
Godalming
Woking
Ashtons
Crawley

Not a huge list. But I've been busy. I have attended the ones near to me on more than one occasion - all the teachers at the above classes taught the semi-circle. None of them mentioned tension or compression. All but one of them was pretty

[dep]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

I've NEVER heard any Ceroc teacher talking about tension and compression or footwork. I

come to Ceroc classes in Scotland. Most of the venues mentioned repeatedly, some less often.

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by dep

come to Ceroc classes in Scotland. Most of the venues mentioned repeatedly, some less often.

I think it's limited to Scotland Ceroc. I think us Scots are ahead of our time. One day all of MJ will look at old videos of people doing the semi-circle and they will laugh.

[ChrisB]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

I've NEVER heard any Ceroc teacher talking about tension and compression or footwork. I have heard some of them say "it doesn't matter which foot" and I've heard many of them say "semi-circle to the left and both step back". I wonder if that's what Gus means us to take as an example of the great product of the mighty CTA?

Every Ceroc teacher at my local venues teaches tension and compression