Personal benefits of the CTA ?

[RobC]

OK, this is not intended to be another "Is Ceroc better than the independants" thread. I am asking this question from the position of a current 'independant' teacher with several years dancing experience (in MJ as well as Ballroom and many other styles) who is considering joining the CTA.

I am interested in hearing from any current CTA members, anyone still going through the training, or anyone who has considered becoming a Ceroc teacher and discounted it.

So the question is, what are the personal benefits - to yourself, not your class, venue or Ceroc as a whole - of paying thousands of pounds to go through the Ceroc teacher training ? (Apart from being able to teach at Ceroc venues ! Come on, I can guess that one )

Have you found any disadvantages ? Has it alienated you / cut you off from the rest of the dance world ? Have you been affected by the dance 'politics', been descriminated against by association to Ceroc ?

All views welcome.
Rob

[Franck]

Originally posted by RobC
So the question is, what are the personal benefits - to yourself, not your class, venue or Ceroc as a whole - of paying thousands of pounds to go through the Ceroc teacher training ?

Hi Rob,

First of all, good luck

Before I reply to your question, I would like to point out that everything I say will be strongly biased towards Ceroc and the CTA

Over the years, I have found the CTA to be a fantastic source of training, in particular in giving myself and all the teachers that work for my with the solid foundations and good practise that ultimately make a good teacher.

The CTA is also a brilliant community of teachers, and the semi-regular training updates positively encourage that. Most teachers who spent the weeks of training involved together are now close friends, and the sense of belonging to a larger community is useful and rewarding.

Finally, a couple of things where the CTA might have been lacking in the past, have been improved a lot recently, and from recent discussioins with other franchises and the Dance Department, a lot more is in the pipeline to take all CTA teachers to another level.
It is my view that within a year or two, CTA teachers will be at the leading edge of all dance developments, and be able to offer some of the best classes / workshops and teaching.

Franck.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Franck
Before I reply to your question, I would like to point out that everything I say will be strongly biased towards Ceroc and the CTA

Before I reply I should point out that whereas I'm not anit-CTA ... I'm not a fan. I thank Franck in advance for allowing me to put forward a contrary view.

I was trained by CTA and still regard the CTA training as the best traiing for teaching Beginner moves and basic intermediate. HOWEVER ... I should point out that at the time of my training, image and age were major considerations. Unconfirmed reports indicate that since its got worse.

The training resurces for CTA are good. George is an exeprienecd dancer and has a wealth of experience to draw on in the form of the CTA. The updates are usefull but not as good as they could be due to no video being issued.

The throny question .... will it enefit a teacher who wants to run workshops and teach more adavanced moves ... well, personal view is no. The teaching is not structured that way and it is probably at odds with the current CTA ethos (though that may be changing.

I left the CTA beacuse I felt I was restricted in how much I could develop the style of what I wanted to teach and where I could teach. whether thos erestrictions will apply once Mike Allard has reformed things is an unanswered question.

Having said all the above, I would agree with the majority of what Franck has said.... except the last statement. I believe that better teachers exist outside the CTA .. I'm not convinced that the standard of CTA teachers is as high as Frank believes ... but then again I am a bitter an twsietd ex-CTA who believes in the glory of the 'good old days'

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Gus
Having said all the above, I would agree with the majority of what Franck has said.... except the last statement. I believe that better teachers exist outside the CTA ..

In fairness Franck doesnt mention that, he says...

It is my view that within a year or two, CTA teachers will be at the leading edge of all dance developments, and be able to offer some of the best classes / workshops and teaching.

..so we only need to wait and see if that will indeed be the case.

Any attempt to improve what Ceroc offers is always going to benefit the entire dance community in some way.

[Paul F]

Hi Rob,

Having just passed my intermediate training with Ceroc (still recovering as it was last night) I can offer two immediate words of advice.....

(scare story mode ON)

'Its Hard'.

Not only do you have to know moves and how to teach them but Ceroc demand much more than that nowadays. They will look at you, as a possible teacher, a number of different ways so be prepared for honest and constructive feedback. The courses are some of the toughest things i have ever done. This is by no means an exaggeration , believe me, its hard.
Im not in the position to go into how they do that but the current training dictates that you must be able to do much more than simply regurgitate material. They train you to 'teach' . This isnt just memorising lines. So, so much more

(scare story mode OFF)

Anyway, i guess i will share with you the reasons I applied.

(please note i respect all independants and believe they all respect MJ and wish to see it flourish)

1. I love Modern Jive and want others to love it too.
I realise this isnt ceroc specific but im sure you will
agree its a pre-requisite.



2. I asked myself "If i were applying for a job, do i apply to local, smaller firms who, fair enough, do a good job OR do i apply to a national firm that is recognised throughout the country (and beyond !!) and who set the standard which spawned all these smaller firms and continue to do so".

I want to spread the word of MJ. This company is in a position to do that.

3. I believe that Ceroc are a company with an exciting future and endless possibilities. The smaller companies dont 'appear' to be in that same position.

4. I knew the training was , 'possibly' the best and most comprehensive i can be exposed too.
(its v v hard but i wouldnt change it for the world)

5. You are part of a huge infrastructure of teachers and staff that work together to help each other (this is from the experience i have been through. Of course in this world im sure there are people that just dont get along yet to see that in the CTa though)

6. At this moment in time Ceroc has built on a strong foundation and has at the helm people that have a drive for business and an enthusiasm for MJ. Two factors in a company that make me say

"i want to be in the CTA"

And i know there are exciting times ahead.


Of course people will probably offer conrtradictory points (and rightly so - u should hear all views) than those above but im in a, somewhat, unique situation here and these are MY beliefs.


nb. i must also point out that the co-existence of ceroc and independants should be one to be encouraged. With no competition a businees may suffer.
I have no interest in politics and, as a teacher not a franchisee, this is not my territory. I work for ceroc and will do my very best for them. I am not interested in politics.

[Paul F]

my fingers hurt now




Going to go play some soothing music to relax them too

Now wheres that 'best of the mavericks' cd

[Emma]

Originally posted by Paul F
Now wheres that 'best of the mavericks' cd

[off topic]Steve's borrowed it!! [/on topic]

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Emma
[off topic]Steve's borrowed it!! [/on topic]

Yes. And it's now gone.

Now.... who else wants to lend me theirs

Steve (a man on a mission to rid the MJ scene of the Mavericks!!)

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally posted by Paul F
Hi Rob,
Having just passed my intermediate training with Ceroc (still recovering as it was last night)

Congratulations Paul

[Paul F]

Originally posted by Sheena
Congratulations Paul

Thanks Sheena. I appreciate that.

[JamesGeary]

Originally posted by Paul F

2. I asked myself "If i were applying for a job, do i apply to local, smaller firms who, fair enough, do a good job OR do i apply to a national firm that is recognised throughout the country (and beyond !!) and who set the standard which spawned all these smaller firms and continue to do so".

Learn to chef at McDonalds or go to an individual master chef?

CTA training seems to be as much about convincing people CTA training is great as anything else, juding by the way people 'sales pitch' (i've seen this a few times) straight after finishing it, but tend not to hold it in high regard after a couple of years experience.

Any coaching has to be to be to either
1) improve your dance technique or
2) improve your presentation technique (via clothes, scripts, attitude, general principles - be nice, wear deodorant, don't embarass beginners, etc)

Rob, you could as an individual certainly look at where you could improve and focus on those areas.

I just remember for the amount Ceroc was charging for 2 weeks CTA training, you could personally hire Viktor for a month full time as your personal teaching and dancing coach. If 4 of you got together to hire a top-notch expert for a few weeks, you would get far better training, and far more cost effectively than you would from Ceroc.

What if 4 people could pay 100 pounds a day each for 2 weeks. You would be paying a teacher 400 pounds a day. You could have your pick of teachers at that price. Viktor for 4 full days, Nigel for 3 full days, then Amir for 4 full days. You could split it up over weekends. Now thats the kind of training I'd want to do!!!

[Emma]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
CTA training seems to be as much about convincing people CTA training is great as anything else, juding by the way people 'sales pitch' (i've seen this a few times) straight after finishing it, but tend not to hold it in high regard after a couple of years experience.

Er...

Originally posted by Franck
Over the years, I have found the CTA to be a fantastic source of training

Originally posted by Gus
I was trained by CTA and still regard the CTA training as the best traiing for teaching Beginner moves and basic intermediate.

...both these guys have been around for a while, haven't they?

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Emma
Er... ...both these guys have been around for a while, haven't they?

Forever!!!

Steve

[Chris]

I notice James doesn't differentiate between Ceroc training in the UK and in NZ where he trained . . .

[Will]

I was at Hipsters a couple of months ago and James was teaching instead of Amir, and Kate was demonstrating.

One particularly interesting move he taught entailed having the girl bent over at 90 degrees with her bum sticking up in the air. Mr Geary's method of teaching this move was to inform the class that if the girl was in the correct position you could rest your beer on the top of her butt.

I need to do that Ceroc NZ Teacher Training!!!

[TheTramp]

And just how drunk was Kate when she agreed to do that move then????

Steve

[Sonic]

Here's 2 of the main reasons why I did the CTA:

1. I needed the training! I'm not a natural, I know I needed a well established, rigorous training course to work out whether I had what it takes to get up on stage. As PaulF says, the course is tough, and I often found myself questioning why I was putting myself through it, but I knew that if I couldn't get through the course, I certainly couldn't do a class. Training is supposed to prepare you for real life, so did the course accomplish this? Well, when I did my first class, I found I was actually quite confident, because the exams were far more nerve wracking than the real thing; and people reacted with surprise when I told them that had been my first ever lesson (although I accept the possibility that some of them were just being nice!).

2. I believe that a recognised teaching qualification is advantageous personally and to the business. Now the CTA qualification is interesting because, although it is recognised within the MJ community, it is not actually recognised by the major UK dance organisations (e.g. IDTA). However, if you tell non-dancers "I'm a teacher, I've got no qualifications, but hey, I learned from the best", it doesn't sound that impressive. Rightly or wrongly, the general public accept formal qualifications/accreditations as some mark of quality. And then there's insurance: I think it's just a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured doing MJ, and following a massive lawsuit, all insurers will demand that all MJ teachers have some form of qualification. Personally, I'm amazed this hasn't happened already.

[Paul F]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
Learn to chef at McDonalds or go to an individual master chef?

So you are saying that the best dancers make the best teacher trainers??

[Gus]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
I just remember for the amount Ceroc was charging for 2 weeks CTA training, you could personally hire Viktor for a month full time as your personal teaching and dancing coach. If 4 of you got together to hire a top-notch expert for a few weeks, you would get far better training, and far more cost effectively than you would from Ceroc.

Although I see the logic in what you are saying, I'm not convinced about the point above. Teaching someone how to teach is VERY differnt from coaching someone to do moves well. I'm definitely not dissing Viktor et als ability to teach teachers ... but I wouldn't take it as a given.

To follow Paul F's point ... there is not always a correlation about a good dancer therefore being a good teacher .... I hope not as some of CTA trainers I had were LOUSY dancers

[Demota]

Absolute naturals are seldom good at imparting the technique of whatever skill they are good at. I was never a natural at anything but was able to teach a whole load of things (for example, juggling) 'cause I had to analyse things down to the basics to get good at them. Having said that, it's generally agreed that a lot of the top sportspersons get to the top of their profession by determination rather than natural ability.
(still dancing by numbers but it's coming....)