To Draw or not to Draw the semi circle....

[Bill]

I probably do the semi circle with absolute beginners when I'm taxi-ing but otherwise leave it out - or sometimes start with little circles as I start the move.

I'm sure DavidB siad something similar on another thread but I find I 'push' - or lead ( ) the lady back with the back of my fingers and if the tension is correct she will step back. I only realised recently that I generally only use a couple of fingers and can pull/push easily enough if the tension is correct.

This was brought home even more at the Las Palmas holiday recently where Lorna spent some time on tension before going on to moves. I'm also reminded of soemthing N& N said years ago about actually starting to dance as you lead your partner on to the floor rather than walking on, standing facing each other and then doing the semi-circle.

[Franck]

Originally posted by Bill
I'm sure DavidB siad something similar on another thread but I find I 'push' - or lead ( ) the lady back with the back of my fingers and if the tension is correct she will step back.

I agree with your post, and just wanted to point out that I have merged both threads, so anyone who missed the original one, or can't remember should read posts in this thread from the start... It'll take you right back to the very early days of the Forum

Franck.

[Bill]

Originally posted by Franck
It'll take you right back to the very early days of the Forum

Franck.

good grief................... I can't keep up with the new posts let alone get time to read some of the old ones. Maybe I'll catch up during the holidays

[eastmanjohn]

The ceroc idea that the left hand lead is a cemi to the left and a right hand a semi to the right must have some reasoning behind it.

I think it's interesting to see how the diretion of the push, semi circle or whatever, affects the way the lady steps back. I think you can make her step back ont he left or right foot depending on how you do it. I think this then affects the flow of the dance form then onwards.

Of course, you could think beyond teh start of a move and think about how moves link. What is teh motion of the hand as it comes down from the end of a return. Is there any feeling of a semi circle there? Surely if the last beat of the previous move is the first beat of the next move then the motions should be similar??

Personally I think the hand should come almost straight down from the return and finishes with a slight push away with the back of the fingers in the lady's palm (no semi circle). No wild sideways movement of the arm.

I don't teach the semi circle although I did grow up with it!!

Here's a thought. What happens if only the man steps back on the first beat. If this creates enough tension is the lady then ready to move forward on either foot for whatever follows?

[Rachel]

Originally posted by eastmanjohn
I think it's interesting to see how the diretion of the push, semi circle or whatever, affects the way the lady steps back. I think you can make her step back ont he left or right foot depending on how you do it. I think this then affects the flow of the dance form then onwards.

Really? Is it true you can chose what foot a lady steps back on by the way you lead the semi-circle? I'm afraid, though, I'm probably a pretty bad follower - I always step back on the right at the start of a dance and can't seem to make myself do otherwise!

Personally I think the hand should come almost straight down from the return and finishes with a slight push away with the back of the fingers in the lady's palm (no semi circle). No wild sideways movement of the arm.

Yes, that's certainly what feels best for the follower. And I'm pretty sure that's the Ceroc advice, too. It's certainly what Marc teaches, anyway.
Rachel

[Gadget]

Originally posted by eastmanjohn
Here's a thought. What happens if only the man steps back on the first beat. If this creates enough tension is the lady then ready to move forward on either foot for whatever follows?

The lady would go into her own thing: you have stopped leading.

[Chris]

Not sure who said it (from a dancer's profile page - thought it might be fun given the direction of the thread):

"To lead me, ask me where I'm going and walk in front."

[spindr]

Thinking about it -- the semi-circle is probably likely to make beginners (especially leaders) take bouncy steps -- leading the hand and arm up during the semi-circle is likely to induce more of a rise and fall as you step back.

I guess separating arm and body movements is probably an intermediate/advanced topic?

Having said that, I will use a semi-circle if I'm doing a beginner's class (in fact I'll lead all the signals, as well) to avoid confusing anyone. In freestyle/improver classes -- just a push away.

I have heard one teacher suggest that the semi-circle is actually a lead for the follower to do a cartwheel

Neil.

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally posted by DavidB
It was nice knowing you. I hope Taz lets us know where to send the flowers...

Oh Taz knows exactly where to send the flowers!! Straight up his a~~e



[quote]Originally posted by DavidB
oh so you have danced with taz as well


You are so lucky I didnt see this till this morning as I'm not going to see you till Monday now!! Funny you never told me about this thread ay!! But dont worry hunny I wont forget!!!

[DavidB]

Originally posted by spindr
I guess separating arm and body movements is probably an intermediate/advanced topic?

Very perceptive. I had a lesson once with Robert Cordoba. He talked about isolating your body from your hand, and then reconnecting as "Advanced Leading". It allowed a significant increase in the range of motion for both the man and the lady, while still maintaining a good light connection with your partner.

Originally posted by spindr
I have heard one teacher suggest that the semi-circle is actually a lead for the follower to do a cartwheel

There is a signal we use for one of our lifts. Well - we don't use it, but Jules and Heather (HevMate) do when they are watching...

[Chris]

Originally posted by DavidB
There is a signal we use for one of our lifts. Well - we don't use it, but Jules and Heather (HevMate) do when they are watching...

That's a new one - getting your audience to signal your moves

[Bill]

Originally posted by Gadget
The lady would go into her own thing: you have stopped leading.

Not exactly.......... if the woman doesn't step back but the man has then as he has to step in again then he'll be where he was anyway. It's obviously a good and clear (possibly) signal that the dance has started.

The man might have wanted the woman to stay where she was before he led her into another move. The lady shouldn't really do anything unless the man clearly gives over the lead to her. If the man doesn't move either should she.............unless they've been to Lorna's workshops However,there are some men who lead so badly that the woman have to guess when the moves has started and what the move is meant to be

[kingo]

I don't see any need for an established dancer to semi-circle at the start of a dance.

However I do think that it is a very useful tool for beginers, and don't think there is anything wrong with anyone continuing to use it as they progress. Esp if they can stylise it like Viktor

As a beginner (especially as a man) it is sometimes hard to get into the rythm. I suggest that if this is the case then a side to side hand movement is used on th edance floor until both partners are on time and ready to dance. At that point, a semi circle is unambiguous and cannot be confused for a poor lead. An accomplished lead would effortlessly have the lady step back by some unconcious effort (perhaps only a change in tension) -but that only comes with experience.

In the beginning there was a letter and the letter was C and without it there were ony bobbing ladies to use to keep you on the beat.

[spindr]

Originally posted by kingo
In the beginning there was a letter and the letter was C and without it there were ony bobbing ladies to use to keep you on the beat.

Ah, but in the original translation it sayeth: "In the beginning was the the word, and the word was 'one' -- followed swiftly by 'two', 'three' and 'four'".

SpinDr (still trying not to count out loud).

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by spindr
Ah, but in the original translation it sayeth: "In the beginning was the the word, and the word was 'one'

Not 5?

Chris

[Nick M]

and the word was 'one' -- followed swiftly by 'two', 'three' and 'four'". [/b]

unlike Salsa dancers, where 'one' is followed swiftly by 'two', 'three' and 'five'

nick

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by Nick M
unlike Salsa dancers, where 'one' is followed swiftly by 'two', 'three' and 'five'
nick

then there's Mambo, where it's not even on the 'one'

[Gordon J Pownall]

Originally Posted by Chicklet

then there's Mambo, where it's not even on the 'one'

Please don't forget the Ceroc Teachers demo of routine / move.....

There is no one, two, three, four, five or six......


Just a.....


SEVEN........EIGHT........

[Emma]

Overheard in a beginner's lesson this week:

A very anxious lady who was there for her first time...

'Where's the semi-circle, where's the semi-circle...I'm a maths teacher and I don't see a semi circle!!'

[The Pilgrim]

The purpose of the 'semi circle' is to introduce tension between leader and follower - a point not commonly known by most ceroc teachers so therefore not explained or taught properly - hence the confusion.


----------------
"A seeker of truth is no stranger to controversy."