To Draw or not to Draw the semi circle....

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by tsh

Yes, some movement is good, but it doesn't have to be a 2ft step to each side with a big arcing had jesture EVERY time. I only lead this type of motion with a small number of beginners and certain music. It still happens most of the time. Who's leading???

If you're letting them take a 2ft step, then obviously not you Just because it's the introduction, you don't wait untill it's over before starting to lead - this is your opportunity to establish your dominance before the 'real' leading starts. If you waste it and let the lady lead it, then she is more likley to try and move through the move herself for the rest of the move rather than follow your lead. (in my experiance anyway)

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally Posted by The Pilgrim

Have you ever been fortunate enough to dance with a real dancer?

We only dance with stuffed animals up here, real dancers are a figment of our deranged minds

"A seeker of truth is no stranger to controversy."

Most people have to pay Franck money to get a signature at the end of each message, one way to dishonestly avoid that limitation is to put your signature directly in each message

[Steven666]

More often that not, the semi circle is drawn for me. And if I'm lucky it goes the right way...

[tsh]

Originally Posted by Gadget

If you're letting them take a 2ft step, then obviously not you Just because it's the introduction, you don't wait untill it's over before starting to lead - this is your opportunity to establish your dominance before the 'real' leading starts. If you waste it and let the lady lead it, then she is more likley to try and move through the move herself for the rest of the move rather than follow your lead. (in my experiance anyway)

Just changed my vote on this thread... I now take the approach that if I am unable to establish a lead on the introduction, I don't lead. If it happens frequently in a class, I offer to follow - which usually gets some sort of a response...

Just realised, the best way to control excessive motion is to place the spare hand on a shoulder...

[Agente Secreto]

Shame there wasn't a choice in the poll that said - Have never done the semi-circle - think it totally superfluous!

Originally Posted by eastmanjohn

At a recent ceroc class (I hadn't been to a ceroc venue for years) I found the side to side movement on the count 5,6,7,8 very distracting. Sometimes the movement had to be abruptly stopped as it obviously took you into the move in the wrong direction.

It is distracting - and more worrying is that the side to side step often comes with a 1/4 body twist so you've got to contend with all the hand action and the body action too.

Originally Posted by Gadget

These side to side movements should be done with a tilting of the hand and transfer of weight rather than a huge step and lead.

I only count in using weight transfer - feet broadly shoulder width apart and with my LH or RH largely static so that I can feel what tension I'm getting from the follow from the outset. Then I find it easier to lead the step back by simply nudging into the follow's hand. I find that in some venues I'm simply ignored by ladies who to step and twist and then lead me in the semi-circle in a very determined way - not surprisingly they don't feature in my dances later in freestlye if I can help it

Originally Posted by Gadget

I try to match the direction the teacher is going on stage - otherwise the beginner ladies get confused.

I don't. What I try and do is get the total focus of the follow on me - I'll even say to a newbie not to look at the teacher. The follow only needs to match the lead's motion and not the teacher's so best to teach them that from the start.

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

Let's not tell Ceroc how silly this side-to-side, five AND six AND seven AND eight is - us independent organisers need some advantage

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

Let's not tell Ceroc how silly this side-to-side, five AND six AND seven AND eight is - us independent organisers need some advantage

Originally Posted by Agente Secreto

I have changed my mind. I think that Ceroc are completely correct. As is every other teacher who teaches this giant circle to crank the ladies into action.

I'm afraid it's too late for me. I can't change. I'm doomed to keep getting the lady to step back by applying compression into the lady's hand in the direction I'd like them to travel. But I see no reason why Ceroc should change their winning formula. My message to Ceroc regarding semi-circles is "keep up the good work"

[johnnyman]

I gave up using the semi-circle ages ago and was only following what the teacher (Janie Cronin @ The Leopard Lounge) was showing.

Often, I just lead a lady out onto a clear spot on the floor and lead her into a start off move, which could be anything in my book.

best
johnnyman

[Martin]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

I see no reason why Ceroc should change their winning formula. My message to Ceroc regarding semi-circles is "keep up the good work"

an old thread, but just jumping to the end... I think it is great for Ceroc to keep the semi-circle.
I think the bounce is also fab.

It gives us "non-Ceroc" peeps something to deliniate us from the "Ceroc model".

Although, for some strange reason, the semi-circle and the bounce are no longer taught in Aussie - but what do they know

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Martin

Although, for some strange reason, the semi-circle and the bounce are no longer taught in Aussie

I think this is an attempt to differentiate the Australian Ceroc dancer from the kangaroo - I gather the kangaroo is seen as vermin: when something bouncing up and down is spotted, some people start reaching for their shotguns

The UK scene is very different. For a start, we don't have any kangaroos. But the real reason they keep the semi-circle/bounce/over-rotate thing is because Ceroc in the UK like to have their classes in city centres: with the rise in knife crime there is a significant risk of being stabbed as you're walking back to your car. All that semi-circling and bouncing is self-defence as it makes you more of a moving target. When I see the semi-circle being performed I think of "wax on, wax off" from the movie "Karate Kid" - I think Ceroc is a bit like Tai Chi, you start learning it as a dance, but you become a martial artist - or do you end up with a shiny car, it's all a bit too confusing

It must be working because I've never heard of anyone being stabbed on their way home from a Ceroc night

[dep]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

.........It must be working because I've never heard of anyone being stabbed on their way home from a Ceroc night

[Alan Doyle]

Once you move your partner's hand you're leading.

If you draw a circle with your hand you're leading your partner to do something which you didn't intend i.e. you want her to step back, so the lead should be gently push your hand forward at your partner's waist level to lead the lady to step back.

If you draw a semi-circle you're also loosing connection with your partner.

[Whitebeard]

Originally Posted by Alan Doyle

Once you move your partner's hand you're leading.

If you draw a circle with your hand you're leading your partner to do something which you didn't intend i.e. you want her to step back, so the lead should be gently push your hand forward at your partner's waist level to lead the lady to step back.

I never use the semi-circle in freestyle, but do in a class situation to avoid disruption. (My view is that far too much is made of this largely symbolic gesture from both sides of the argument for or against.)

Originally Posted by Alan Doyle

If you draw a semi-circle you're also loosing connection with your partner.

Ah, what you have to be able to do is to multi-task (something not a few men have problems with).

At the same time as you draw the semi-cicle your hand should be applying that forward pressure (not forwards movement) to which the follower will react with an equal pressure in the opposite direction. The hands thus will not move in a forward/backward direction, but the repulsive pressure at the hand connection leads both partners to step back and straighten their arms (not fully).

For most people this is probably not a natural reponse and must be taught and learned and refined over time.

[straycat]

Originally Posted by Alan Doyle

If you draw a semi-circle you're also loosing connection with your partner.

What if you draw a toroidal dodecahedron with hyperbolic Euclidian interstices?

[Alan Doyle]

Originally Posted by straycat

What if you draw a toroidal dodecahedron with hyperbolic Euclidian interstices?

I'd much rather eat doughnuts lol