Jumps and Drops: Yay or Nay ? - Page 3

horsey_dude · 18th-November-2002, 09:25 AM

I would just like to say that I have never seen anyone do any kind of lift that looked good (I am not kidding).

The people that seem to love them the most are people that are basically not good dancers (sorry if this offends anyone) who think that if they do the flashiest most difficult moves then everyone will look at them in awe.

Maybe its because I do Ceroc for enjoyment and like to freestyle in clubs where there is no room for that kind of stuff that my opinion is a bit coloured but I say THEY SUCK!

The best people that I have seen that really hypnotise a crowd often don't do a lot of really flashy stuff but their timing and style stand out through a crowd.

**Gadget** · 18th-November-2002, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by horsey_dude
I would just like to say that I have never seen anyone do any kind of lift that looked good (I am not kidding).

Sorry, but this is crying out for a pun...

Obviously horsey_dude would say 'Neigh'

... couldn't help it; sorry 'dude.

**Will** · 18th-November-2002, 11:18 AM

A Horsey that doesn't like jumps????

**Dreadful Scathe** · 18th-November-2002, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by horsey_dude
I would just like to say that I have never seen anyone do any kind of lift that looked good (I am not kidding).

Youve not seen the Jump and Jive folks then thats for sure

**DavidB** · 18th-November-2002, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by horsey_dude
... like to freestyle in clubs where there is no room for that kind of stuff ...

Some of the teachers at Camber were going up to couples doing aerials in the freestyle, and asking them to stop. It must have had some effect - I saw very few over the weekend.

Then again a lot of the couples were too busy doing drops to do aerials...

Quote:

The best people that I have seen that really hypnotise a crowd often don't do a lot of really flashy stuff but their timing and style stand out through a crowd.

Couldn't agree more. The easiest way to impress most non-dancers is by doing something flashy. But the only way to really impress a dancer is by dancing well, and that is hard. Lifts and drops are simple in comparison.

David

horsey_dude · 19th-November-2002, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Will
A Horsey that doesn't like jumps????

Very funny! I will travelling round the UK next year and hope to visit Scotland as my grandfather was scottish and I am quite keen to see the country that he came from. Its nice to know that the ceroc people are a bit more laid back than the ones here.....

*Bill* · 20th-November-2002, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by horsey_dude
I would just like to say that I have never seen anyone do any kind of lift that looked good (I am not kidding).

The best people that I have seen that really hypnotise a crowd often don't do a lot of really flashy stuff but their timing and style stand out through a crowd.

Although I'm not as extreme in my views on lifts as you are HD I would certainly agree with the timing and style standing out.

I think drops and lifts can 'wow' some folk - especially beginners but they often don't look very good.

However, as DS points out the couples who specialise in lifts can make them look very good ( eg Andy and Rena). Others forget about the music and spend time just doing lifts - regardless of the music

But if it's safe and if there is room ( not often ) then I don't mind others doing them - as long as they don't invade my space :reallymad

And yes..........we are pretty laid back here in Scotland. Some very good dancers so if you make it over then we'd love to see you. I was in NZ a couple of years ago and was surprised at the nature of the classes - no single classes here - or Advanced classes. I felt very very much a novice :sorry Didn't dance in Wellington though - only in Aukland.

jivecat · 27th-October-2003, 01:09 PM

I really enjoy doing dips and drops with a partner that I feel secure with, luckily there are lots of those. However, it can be very alarming to be thrown into a drop by someone who has not mastered the technique yet or by an unfamiliar partner only seconds into a dance. Some guys ask me if I am happy to do drops, I really appreciate their courtesy. If guys are struggling with the technique for drops I would be happy to help them practise, but not in the context of a crowded dancefloor as I do not like being put in danger/being made to look stupid! Vain, I know. It's only Ceroc!

TheTramp · 27th-October-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorna
I completely agree, avoiding the woman in the future doesn't solve anything. The lady in question will keep doing it and next time it may result in an injury. If you feel embarrassed about approaching her you could always speak to the teacher who would then have a polite word.

Hey! What happens if it is the teacher who throws herself towards the floor??

Steve

Chris · 27th-October-2003, 01:37 PM

I couldn't answer in any of the categories of the poll . . .

I like dips, drop, seducers, lifts, jumps (all different IMO) but . . .

I haven't seen Franck or Lorna teach a dips and drops class so nothing personal here, but "stressing safety" is not enough to ensure moves are done safely. Many Ceroc teachers, I am sorry to say, are not trained extensively in drops. I have had this out (quietly in the break) with a Ceroc teacher who I felt was missing essential safety points and he replied "that's too much for people to take in".

Those who teach drops well seem to have learnt the phsyical dynamics in another discipline, whether ballet or ballroom or whatever. Ceroc is very much a 'street' dance and the way they avoid serious injury as far as I can tell is by having a list of moves that should not normally be taught (which includes a lot of drops and lifts).

You end up with a style that maximises safety in the face of 'badly' executed drops, which means that the guy compensates for a lady who throws herself back by lunging further than he should need to, holds the lady in such a way as to minimise strain on his back when he doesn't keep it straight etc etc.

I love doing drops with girls who have been taught what I think of as good dance technique - right-bum-to-heel, over her own weight, tenses the stomach muscles etc. I tend not to do drops with girls that don't appear to have that technique as I'm there to enjoy dancing with them not show them how I think they should dance.

Seducers and dips I'll do with anyone - there is less risk attached (to either of us) and I can get a sense in a baby seducer or lean as to how the girl takes responsibility for her weight distribution and balance.

Lifts and jumps are also pretty different. My personal feeling is that it's fun to learn jumps (especially from people like Andy and Rena who not only teach very safely but can and do explain what's happening in your body and why you need to do it a certain way.) I also think there's no place for them on a dance floor unless it's the start or end of the night where it's more or less empty. They're mostly for cabaret or competitions where there are few dancers on the floor I think.

Lifts are different - there are lifts in a straight line that do not involve limbs flying all over the place are don't make those round about feel uncomfortable. I can only think of two like this that I know how to do and one that I would like to do but can't, but I'm sure they may be others. But I'd only do them with a partner where we both felt comfortable and where I felt it wasn't going to make other dancers uncomfortable (even doing stuff like this safely can make beginners feel a tad uncomfy!)

I'm not trying to criticise, and there's stuff I'd feel happy doing at Hipsters or in NZ that I wouldn't in a lot of other places. One reason is that beginners (or just the accepted what-is-done) may easily wander into your dance space - and, however unreasonable, an accident is still an accident.

ChrisA · 27th-October-2003, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by horsey_dude
I would just like to say that I have never seen anyone do any kind of lift that looked good (I am not kidding).

Well, I'm going to say it, and doubtless others will too.

David and Lily's cabaret at Rock Bottoms on Saturday night, with lots of lifts and drops was totally, unequivocally, staggeringly, heart-stoppingly, spectacularly, awesome.

I have never seen a showcase like it - athleticism and visual excitement in spades, but without sacrificing an iota of grace, style, musicality, or even dancing together. Every movement flowed seamlessly into the next.

My spine literally tingled as I watched, and it does again now recalling the memory.

Total respect, guys, it was beautiful.

Chris

**Bardsey** · 27th-October-2003, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jayne
"I am neither a man nor a woman"???

It made me laugh. I see that no-body has yet made that declaration, although I have my doubts about some people...

Only joking - I love you all!

Jayne

Stangely enough, 4 have now voted that way. They would be interesting to meet!!!! Could they be dogs from a previous thread?

**Forte** · 27th-October-2003, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisA
Well, I'm going to say it, and doubtless others will too.

David and Lily's cabaret at Rock Bottoms on Saturday night, with lots of lifts and drops was totally, unequivocally, staggeringly, heart-stoppingly, spectacularly, awesome.

I have never seen a showcase like it - athleticism and visual excitement in spades, but without sacrificing an iota of grace, style, musicality, or even dancing together. Every movement flowed seamlessly into the next.

My spine literally tingled as I watched, and it does again now recalling the memory.

Total respect, guys, it was beautiful.

Chris

I am sorry I missed it

When are you coming to Scotland again, LilyB and DavidB? Loved your routine and workshop in Perth.

jivecat · 27th-October-2003, 03:45 PM

I should add that I'm not a Ceroc teacher although I have toyed with the idea of teaching it to Year 2 (wish I'd started that young!). I've been dancing about 2 years, the quest for perfection continues!

bigdjiver · 28th-October-2003, 09:15 PM

Someone at the venue last night, back from Rockbottoms.
First comment "We danced until 3am"
Second - David & Lily were fabulous, they did this move ...

**Rachel** · 30th-October-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisA
Well, I'm going to say it, and doubtless others will too.

David and Lily's cabaret at Rock Bottoms on Saturday night, with lots of lifts and drops was totally, unequivocally, staggeringly, heart-stoppingly, spectacularly, awesome.

I have never seen a showcase like it - athleticism and visual excitement in spades, but without sacrificing an iota of grace, style, musicality, or even dancing together. Every movement flowed seamlessly into the next.

My spine literally tingled as I watched, and it does again now recalling the memory.

Total respect, guys, it was beautiful.

Chris

Couldn't describe it better myself - I absolutely agree with you. Stunning! I remember telling Marc that it almost had me in tears!!

**Tazmanian Devil** · 2nd-November-2003, 11:42 PM

I am neither a man nor a woman!!

Well you don't know anything is possible these days

I Love lifts and drops but I will only do them with Men that I know, know what they are doing.

**Dreadful Scathe** · 7th-November-2003, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by horsey_dude
I would just like to say that I have never seen anyone do any kind of lift that looked good (I am not kidding).

so, should we denounce Horsey Dude as a heretic and send screaming mobs of peasants after him. Ill be in a mob at the front with a torch

.
We shall shout, 'Lifts are great if done correctly'
'Go see a musical'
'Have you never seen a ballet?'
''Open your mind to dance, or be forever shackled'

...and stuff like that, mob rousing isnt it

look peasant mob, a talking gorilla posting to a human forum...get it...chase it...hunt it down like an ape...damn! its escaped up the empire state building...call in the planes...hang on these are bi-planes, aren't we in the 21st century?..whats he doing with that blonde...why are you all standing around...who organised this mob...no its wasnt me...you're a rabble you know that...look, i know thats the point but cant you be more in tune with each other...i'll tell you who appointed me leader, me, you got a problem...oh you do...you ALL do...er...ok...er...take it easy...boomer help me, theres a mob...aaaaargh

jivecat · 11th-November-2003, 09:34 PM

Ahem!..............I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a forum about dancing.

**Neil** · 11th-November-2003, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jivecat
Ahem!..............I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a forum about dancing.

What a strange delusion

(blimey, jivecat, if you think this thread is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet

)

Neil

View Poll Results: Drops / Dips / Lifts / etc: Yay or Nay ?
I am a man, and I love them all...	39	27.46%
I am a man, and I love seducers but hate lifts, etc...	18	12.68%
I am a man and I hate all drops / lifts	6	4.23%
I am a man, and I do not care either way	4	2.82%
I am a woman and I love being dropped / seduced / lifted...	48	33.80%
I am a woman, and I like the occasional seducer but do not like drops / lifts.	9	6.34%
I am a woman and I refuse to be dropped / lifted or seduced !	4	2.82%
I am a woman, and I do not care either way	3	2.11%
What are drops / lifts / seducers / etc???	0	0%
I am neither a man nor a woman.	11	7.75%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll \| Withdraw Vote

27th-October-2003, 01:09 PM	#48 (permalink)
jivecat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tubugi Island Posts: 1,558 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 822	dips and drops I really enjoy doing dips and drops with a partner that I feel secure with, luckily there are lots of those. However, it can be very alarming to be thrown into a drop by someone who has not mastered the technique yet or by an unfamiliar partner only seconds into a dance. Some guys ask me if I am happy to do drops, I really appreciate their courtesy. If guys are struggling with the technique for drops I would be happy to help them practise, but not in the context of a crowded dancefloor as I do not like being put in danger/being made to look stupid! Vain, I know. It's only Ceroc!

27th-October-2003, 03:45 PM	#54 (permalink)
jivecat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tubugi Island Posts: 1,558 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 822	dips and drops I should add that I'm not a Ceroc teacher although I have toyed with the idea of teaching it to Year 2 (wish I'd started that young!). I've been dancing about 2 years, the quest for perfection continues!

11th-November-2003, 09:34 PM	#59 (permalink)
jivecat Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tubugi Island Posts: 1,558 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 822	dips and drops Ahem!..............I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a forum about dancing.

18th-November-2002, 09:25 AM	#41 (permalink)
horsey_dude Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wellington Posts: 226 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 34	I would just like to say that I have never seen anyone do any kind of lift that looked good (I am not kidding). The people that seem to love them the most are people that are basically not good dancers (sorry if this offends anyone) who think that if they do the flashiest most difficult moves then everyone will look at them in awe. Maybe its because I do Ceroc for enjoyment and like to freestyle in clubs where there is no room for that kind of stuff that my opinion is a bit coloured but I say THEY SUCK! The best people that I have seen that really hypnotise a crowd often don't do a lot of really flashy stuff but their timing and style stand out through a crowd.

18th-November-2002, 11:18 AM	#43 (permalink)
Will Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London Posts: 1,424 Status: No Status Rep Power: 4 Rep.: 558	A Horsey that doesn't like jumps????

27th-October-2003, 01:37 PM	#50 (permalink)
Chris Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 889 Status: No Status Rep Power: 4 Rep.: 11	I couldn't answer in any of the categories of the poll . . . I like dips, drop, seducers, lifts, jumps (all different IMO) but . . . I haven't seen Franck or Lorna teach a dips and drops class so nothing personal here, but "stressing safety" is not enough to ensure moves are done safely. Many Ceroc teachers, I am sorry to say, are not trained extensively in drops. I have had this out (quietly in the break) with a Ceroc teacher who I felt was missing essential safety points and he replied "that's too much for people to take in". Those who teach drops well seem to have learnt the phsyical dynamics in another discipline, whether ballet or ballroom or whatever. Ceroc is very much a 'street' dance and the way they avoid serious injury as far as I can tell is by having a list of moves that should not normally be taught (which includes a lot of drops and lifts). You end up with a style that maximises safety in the face of 'badly' executed drops, which means that the guy compensates for a lady who throws herself back by lunging further than he should need to, holds the lady in such a way as to minimise strain on his back when he doesn't keep it straight etc etc. I love doing drops with girls who have been taught what I think of as good dance technique - right-bum-to-heel, over her own weight, tenses the stomach muscles etc. I tend not to do drops with girls that don't appear to have that technique as I'm there to enjoy dancing with them not show them how I think they should dance. Seducers and dips I'll do with anyone - there is less risk attached (to either of us) and I can get a sense in a baby seducer or lean as to how the girl takes responsibility for her weight distribution and balance. Lifts and jumps are also pretty different. My personal feeling is that it's fun to learn jumps (especially from people like Andy and Rena who not only teach very safely but can and do explain what's happening in your body and why you need to do it a certain way.) I also think there's no place for them on a dance floor unless it's the start or end of the night where it's more or less empty. They're mostly for cabaret or competitions where there are few dancers on the floor I think. Lifts are different - there are lifts in a straight line that do not involve limbs flying all over the place are don't make those round about feel uncomfortable. I can only think of two like this that I know how to do and one that I would like to do but can't, but I'm sure they may be others. But I'd only do them with a partner where we both felt comfortable and where I felt it wasn't going to make other dancers uncomfortable (even doing stuff like this safely can make beginners feel a tad uncomfy!) I'm not trying to criticise, and there's stuff I'd feel happy doing at Hipsters or in NZ that I wouldn't in a lot of other places. One reason is that beginners (or just the accepted what-is-done) may easily wander into your dance space - and, however unreasonable, an accident is still an accident.

28th-October-2003, 09:15 PM	#55 (permalink)
bigdjiver Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: bedford Posts: 3,870 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 795	Someone at the venue last night, back from Rockbottoms. First comment "We danced until 3am" Second - David & Lily were fabulous, they did this move ...

2nd-November-2003, 11:42 PM	#57 (permalink)
Tazmanian Devil Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Silly land Posts: 5,003 Status: No Status Rep Power: 5 Rep.: 1420	I am neither a man nor a woman!! Well you don't know anything is possible these days I Love lifts and drops but I will only do them with Men that I know, know what they are doing.

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