Jumps and Drops: Yay or Nay ? - Page 4

**Bardsey** · 12th-November-2003, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jivecat
Ahem!..............I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a forum about dancing.

Try going Upstairs.... then have a rethink

Dance? Well.....sort of

*Bill* · 12th-November-2003, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bardsey
Try going Upstairs.... then have a rethink Dance? Well.....sort of

and if you go upstairs you never know what someone might be wearing under her dress.....................

**Dreadful Scathe** · 12th-November-2003, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jivecat
Ahem!..............I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a forum about dancing.

Apart from er...adding a few irrelevant points to my last post on this thread - i was disagreeing with Horsey Dudes comments about there lifts never looking good. Perfectly on topic.

So in reality my posts are much more relevant than yours

. so there!

**Bardsey** · 12th-November-2003, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill
and if you go upstairs you never know what someone might be wearing under her dress.....................

*Bill* · 14th-November-2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bardsey

hee hee...............................

Chris · 27th-November-2003, 11:09 AM

In today's news a ballerina who was sacked by the Bolshoi amid reports that she was too heavy has won a lawsuit against the ballet theatre. Anastasia Volochkova was fired in September after the Bolshoi director said she was too large to lift.

She's (5 ft 7 in) tall and weighing 50 kg (110 pounds) - sounds a bit under 8 stone to me . . .

There's not much of a direct comparison (ballet lifts, I believe, are probably more strenuous than jive lifts) but it maybe suggests the question of technique in jive aerials, which varies widely (and which helps or hinders the lifting of a partner especially when the man is not very strong and the woman is not a size eight).

Discuss?

**Graham** · 27th-November-2003, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris
Discuss?

I've thought long and hard about this and decided I'm still quite fond of living.

azande · 27th-November-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graham
I've thought long and hard about this and decided I'm still quite fond of living.

Agree 100%!

jiveclone · 27th-November-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris
She's (5 ft 7 in) tall and weighing 50 kg (110 pounds) - sounds a bit under 8 stone to me . . .

Discuss?

It depends on the jive move in question, for baby aerials like the ceroc logo move there should not be much problem going over 8 stone with the correct technique. Obviously there will be some limitation as to how far over 8 stone it is sensible to go.

Andy and Rena perform quite a few larger aerials, and Rena probably weighs a bit more than 110 pounds. Also Rena often throws Andy around, and he probably weighs over 150 pounds.

However for the more extreme aerials, as performed by David and Lily, weight is likely to be a significant factor even with correct technique.

*Sheepman* · 27th-November-2003, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jiveclone
Rena probably weighs a bit more than 110 pounds.

(Sorry Rena - but we know there is not 1 ounce that is out of place!).
Of course there is a balance of weight, strength, technique and confidence. I have done air steps (long ago) with Rena, who (used to) weigh more than me. It was a piece of cake compared to my inexperienced reluctant partner who was much smaller. I have also seen Andy "thrown" by partners much more pettite than Rena.
I think you need the strength more when you are practicing these things, because that's your "safety factor" when your not getting the technique right.

Greg

TheTramp · 27th-November-2003, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheepman

(Sorry Rena - but we know there is not 1 ounce that is out of place!).
Of course there is a balance of weight, strength, technique and confidence. I have done air steps (long ago) with Rena, who (used to) weigh more than me. It was a piece of cake compared to my inexperienced reluctant partner who was much smaller. I have also seen Andy "thrown" by partners much more pettite than Rena.
I think you need the strength more when you are practicing these things, because that's your "safety factor" when your not getting the technique right.

Greg

I remember doing Andy and Rena's big airstep classes way back when.

We used to do the moves in 4's - for the safety factor.

I'd do the move with my partner, and the other couple would do it. Then I'd do the move with the other lady. And the other guy would have a go with my partner.

Then Andy would come over to check how we were doing. And more often than not (I think that the only one we didn't try was the candlestick - though I'm up for it), I'd then do the move with Andy

Steve

*Sheepman* · 27th-November-2003, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheTramp
I'd then do the move with Andy

Hang on Steve, you're not suggesting that YOU'RE more pettite than Rena are you?

Well maybe

Greg

David Franklin · 27th-November-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jiveclone
It depends on the jive move in question, for baby aerials like the ceroc logo move there should not be much problem going over 8 stone with the correct technique. Obviously there will be some limitation as to how far over 8 stone it is sensible to go.

The following shows how size and strength are not always a barrier:

I've been at one of Adam's workshops where a man did a superwoman with a partner weighing maybe 14-15 stone. [I'm not saying it was elegant - but she did get up there!]

Quote:

However for the more extreme aerials, as performed by David and Lily, weight is likely to be a significant factor even with correct technique.

There's no doubt being strong and having a light partner helps a lot, especially when learning the moves. It also gives you more options for entry, exit, transitions and dramatic effect. In the ballet example, suppose the director wanted the man to slowly press the woman overhead, you really need a strong man and a light partner - no amount of technique is going to help that situation very much.

On the other hand, one of the former world champion couples (Tommye Giacchino and Gregory Day) are quite a way from the stereotype of huge man and tiny woman - they clearly don't have the strength margin some of the other couples do, but they are very good at what they do.

Dave

Chris · 27th-November-2003, 02:41 PM

I was at a (rotating) baby aerials fun class with some friends earlier in the year and was pleased that I was (I think) the only guy who got a particular lady into the air - she seemed a bit embarrassed (she was a bit on the chunky side

) so I hoped it helped her confidence. But I found it helped me too as I'm not very strong and it made me concentrate more on technique, aligning her centre of gravity and stuff. When I used to do Andy and Rena's classes I was impressed that he's not an enormous guy. Obviously strength and lightness play a great part, and presses will be more difficult if the follower's chunky, but a lot of people use strength to cover up flaws (not you David! you obviously work out a lot - or have - but your graceful aerials with Bryony are a joy to watch.)

Scotch Bonnet · 29th-October-2004, 08:48 PM

Jumps and drops can look good when done properly,but most of the time watching guys try this at Ceroc(usually with little tiny gals!!)it's because they don't have enough real moves and are not the best dancers..........I've been hurt a few times by these 'macho'men ......

RogerR · 30th-October-2004, 10:29 AM

It takes a lot to be good at aerials. The Leader has to limit the moves to those that can be lead in the space and time available. this demands a lot of experiment time in a studio to learn how to lead a partner into through and out of the move safely.

Little Monkey · 30th-October-2004, 12:28 PM

I looooove drops, dips, jumps etc.... And I'm definitely ever so slightly over 8 stone.....

There are some guys I dance with who manage to make me feel like I weigh next to nothing, which is great!

But there are also too many guys out there who do these moves without knowing how to do them right, or do them too often, and without checking that there's plenty of room on the floor to ensure the safety of their partner and other dancers. I have landed head first on the floor a couple of times, and also had my back twisted badly, which is NOT NICE!

So, I DO like these moves if:

The guy knows how to do them right

There's LOADS of room on the dance floor

The guy knows (= bothers to find out) that his partner is happy about doing the move

I won't snap him in two when he attempts to lift / drop me....

And obviously, being a size.... Bigger than 8

, there's a limit to what moves I can do without killing my poor partner.... But a lot of fun can still be had!

(Not So) Little Miss Monkey

TheTramp · 30th-October-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Monkey

I looooove drops, dips, jumps etc.... And I'm definitely ever so slightly over 8 stone.....

You are?? Doesn't look like it....

Trampy

**Piglet** · 30th-October-2004, 05:13 PM

So far I enjoy all of those moves - but I'm still pretty much a novice and trying my best to remember the signals for some of them.

Need much more practice but its a pure delight when in the hands of someone very experienced because you find you end up in the right place without trying hard at all.

Great fun!

Guess the ideal would be to have a designated dancing partner to practise them with - will have to try harder to bribe my boyfriend to try ceroc.

Little Monkey · 30th-October-2004, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTramp

You are?? Doesn't look like it....

Trampy

Cheeky....

Miss Monkey

View Poll Results: Drops / Dips / Lifts / etc: Yay or Nay ?
I am a man, and I love them all...	39	27.46%
I am a man, and I love seducers but hate lifts, etc...	18	12.68%
I am a man and I hate all drops / lifts	6	4.23%
I am a man, and I do not care either way	4	2.82%
I am a woman and I love being dropped / seduced / lifted...	48	33.80%
I am a woman, and I like the occasional seducer but do not like drops / lifts.	9	6.34%
I am a woman and I refuse to be dropped / lifted or seduced !	4	2.82%
I am a woman, and I do not care either way	3	2.11%
What are drops / lifts / seducers / etc???	0	0%
I am neither a man nor a woman.	11	7.75%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll \| Withdraw Vote

27th-November-2003, 11:09 AM	#66 (permalink)
Chris Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 889 Status: No Status Rep Power: 4 Rep.: 11	'Big ballerina' wins Bolshoi case In today's news a ballerina who was sacked by the Bolshoi amid reports that she was too heavy has won a lawsuit against the ballet theatre. Anastasia Volochkova was fired in September after the Bolshoi director said she was too large to lift. She's (5 ft 7 in) tall and weighing 50 kg (110 pounds) - sounds a bit under 8 stone to me . . . There's not much of a direct comparison (ballet lifts, I believe, are probably more strenuous than jive lifts) but it maybe suggests the question of technique in jive aerials, which varies widely (and which helps or hinders the lifting of a partner especially when the man is not very strong and the woman is not a size eight). Discuss? Attached Thumbnails

29th-October-2004, 08:48 PM	#75 (permalink)
Scotch Bonnet Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bonnyrigg Posts: 99 Status: No Status Rep Power: 2 Rep.: 23	Re: Jumps and Drops: Yay or Nay ? Jumps and drops can look good when done properly,but most of the time watching guys try this at Ceroc(usually with little tiny gals!!)it's because they don't have enough real moves and are not the best dancers..........I've been hurt a few times by these 'macho'men ......

30th-October-2004, 10:29 AM	#76 (permalink)
RogerR Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 430 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 110	Re: Jumps and Drops: Yay or Nay ? It takes a lot to be good at aerials. The Leader has to limit the moves to those that can be lead in the space and time available. this demands a lot of experiment time in a studio to learn how to lead a partner into through and out of the move safely.

30th-October-2004, 12:28 PM	#77 (permalink)
Little Monkey Cheeky by nature Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Still in Dundee.... Posts: 3,633 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 1463	Re: Jumps and Drops: Yay or Nay ? I looooove drops, dips, jumps etc.... And I'm definitely ever so slightly over 8 stone..... There are some guys I dance with who manage to make me feel like I weigh next to nothing, which is great! But there are also too many guys out there who do these moves without knowing how to do them right, or do them too often, and without checking that there's plenty of room on the floor to ensure the safety of their partner and other dancers. I have landed head first on the floor a couple of times, and also had my back twisted badly, which is NOT NICE! So, I DO like these moves if: The guy knows how to do them right There's LOADS of room on the dance floor The guy knows (= bothers to find out) that his partner is happy about doing the move I won't snap him in two when he attempts to lift / drop me.... And obviously, being a size.... Bigger than 8 , there's a limit to what moves I can do without killing my poor partner.... But a lot of fun can still be had! (Not So) Little Miss Monkey

27th-November-2003, 02:41 PM	#74 (permalink)
Chris Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 889 Status: No Status Rep Power: 4 Rep.: 11	I was at a (rotating) baby aerials fun class with some friends earlier in the year and was pleased that I was (I think) the only guy who got a particular lady into the air - she seemed a bit embarrassed (she was a bit on the chunky side ) so I hoped it helped her confidence. But I found it helped me too as I'm not very strong and it made me concentrate more on technique, aligning her centre of gravity and stuff. When I used to do Andy and Rena's classes I was impressed that he's not an enormous guy. Obviously strength and lightness play a great part, and presses will be more difficult if the follower's chunky, but a lot of people use strength to cover up flaws (not you David! you obviously work out a lot - or have - but your graceful aerials with Bryony are a joy to watch.)

30th-October-2004, 05:13 PM	#79 (permalink)
Piglet Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: In Puppy Heaven Posts: 5,218 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 857	Re: Jumps and Drops: Yay or Nay ? So far I enjoy all of those moves - but I'm still pretty much a novice and trying my best to remember the signals for some of them. Need much more practice but its a pure delight when in the hands of someone very experienced because you find you end up in the right place without trying hard at all. Great fun! Guess the ideal would be to have a designated dancing partner to practise them with - will have to try harder to bribe my boyfriend to try ceroc.

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