My First thread! SIGNALS

[Lou]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
doing moves is easier than explaining them

Tell me about it!

I was just thinking, and the only way I think I'd know it was a 1st Move Jump, would be the position of the Man when he bends down during the move, preparing for the jump bit. Oh, and probably he would have whispered "jump" at some point!

[Franck]

Originally posted by Lou
Do you also have the "tap on the shoulder", to indicate a double Fig of 8?

And what's the signal for 1st Move Jump? I can't remember us having one, but that's not to say there isn't one.

Very interesting insight in the various differences across Leroc / Ceroc and other Modern Jive Organizations...
Re. the Figure of 8, I am also at a loss to see the necessity of a signal! As long as the man does not pull his partner forward, she won't be travelling, leaving him ample time and space to turn under his hand. However, after his turn, we usually teach a signal, to send the lady into her turn, a slight dip of the hand, which (in theory) ensures that the lady does not try to turn too early...
No tap for a double Figure of 8 either, sorry :sorry

Re. the First move jump, this is one of the few lifts that are safe enough to teach in a regular (not overly crowded) class, and as such, a signal of sort became necessary. It is perfectly possible to lead the move without any signal, through change of Right hand position, flattening of the left hand, and general lowering of you and your partner in preparation for the jump, etc... But in practise, where most men would lead inadequately, a signal, tap on the shoulder, became a useful shortcut.
This does however highlight the short-comings of signals, as most men then assume that signalling is sufficient, when plainly, based on the above preparation required, it is not!

Finally, regarding the Ballroom Drop, I would have thought that the main signal was the change of hand-grip, rather than the hand offered across the chest! Offering the hand across the chest is a way into the move, not a signal that you're going to do that move, as many moves would start that way.
Changing the grip and eventually lowering your partner, is both signal and lead.

Franck.

[TheTramp]

I really don't like 'signals' as leads (I'm taking the view that offering the hand behind the back for a pretzel isn't really a signal, but an integral part of the move (and other similar examples)).

Right hand across chest is signal for a jump, left hand for ball room drop .

This is exactly the sort of reason for not wanting to use signals. They are very easy to mis-interpret, and could lead to accidents. I've also found that they tend to vary in different parts of the country, ie. a hand signal for a jump in London, is a signal for a drop in Brighton (or a signal for your partner to run off the floor, screaming, in Aberdeen).

The only signal to ever use is to bring your partner into a close move and say the name of the move. And if there's anything other than comprehension in her expression (fear is a definite no-no), then the move should be aborted.

Steve

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Franck


Finally, regarding the Ballroom Drop, I would have thought that the main signal was the change of hand-grip, rather than the hand offered across the chest! Offering the hand across the chest is a way into the move, not a signal that you're going to do that move, as many moves would start that way.
Changing the grip and eventually lowering your partner, is both signal and lead.

Good point - the hand hold is the main signal as if you didnt do it the lady would not expect a ballroom drop even if you have put your hand across chest (i suppose for other moves my right hand would be slightly further out and not touchin my chest!). Just proves my point though ...i cant explain moves very well .

[Lou]

I agree - our differences always fascinate me!

I'm conditioned to see the signal! It's also a kind of style point, as the man sweeps down with his right hand, to change the handhold into the fig of 8. btw.. we also have the dip.

We also sometimes use the tap on the shoulder, going into a catapult variation. It just lets the lady know to expect the unexpected.

You're right, though, Franck - there's always more than the signal to tell you to expect a move (like the ballroom drop). The lead is of utmost importance, no matter what "signal" you're getting.

[Graham]

I guess I'm rehashing here, but to summarise my understanding, a signal is a handy mechanism used when going into a move which
a) resembles another (probably beginner's) move, and
b) is easier to execute when the follower is expecting to do something other than the "obvious" move.
A hand offer (even behind back) is therefore not a signal in this sense.

I agree with Franck: I don't see the benefit of a Figure 8 signal - I can't think how the move could be mistaken for anything more obvious (I'm sure that with my limited knowledge there are bound to be similar moves which are less obvious), and as long as you lead it properly the follower is unlikely to do anything other than what's intended (apart from starting her turn too early as already mentioned). However, I'll try to remember to throw this move in a few times next time I'm dancing with some lerocers, and see if they manage without the signal.

[Emma]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe


1st move jump signal i learned was right hand taps your own right shoulder

Aaaah..of course, that's what that signal is for. My problem with that signal is that every time I see it I think 'er..I know I know the move that follows that signal, but I'm buggered if I can remember what it's for'. Obviously by the time I'm through thinking this, the moment has kinda passed !

I'm sure someone has said something intelligent about this already, but that's the problem with signals...dummies like me can't remember what they're for! :sorry Helps me a whole lot if someone whispers the name of the move in my ear. It might be cheating/unprofessional/whatever, but it's a load less confusing!

[Franck]

Originally posted by Emma
Helps me a whole lot if someone whispers the name of the move in my ear. It might be cheating/unprofessional/whatever, but it's a load less confusing!

Problem then, is that you have to remember the name of the moves
Especially as different dance organizations use different names for the same move...

No easy answer, just a good lead, and no dangerous moves with a partner you are not familiar with!

Franck.

[MartinHarper]

Rules for reacting to signals on the social dancefloor:
1: If you don't recognise the signal, follow the lead (accurately).
2: If you do recognise the signal, follow the lead (tolerantly).
3: If there are no signals, follow the lead (stylishly).

[LMC]

If the follower "ignores" your signals on the dance floor:

If she is otherwise following accurately/tolerantly/stylishly, she probably hasn't recognised the signal.

Please do NOT say condescendingly "Oh, don't you know that move then?"
Please do NOT just stop mid-dance to teach her the move - ask first
Please DO carry on dancing/smiling.

[Saxylady]

I don't find signals that helpful, especially when dancing in a different region (eg. 40 miles down the road!). I've come across several different signals for first move jump and the bunny-jump or hip-hop (some are interchangeable, as I discovered to one chap's discomfiture ) - and as there are also different regional names for these moves a word in the ear doesn't help either.

Taps on the shoulder tend to make me go 'what's he tapping me for?' and then I mess up a move I could otherwise follow perfectly well.

Probably 'signals' that are really a slight exaggeration of the natural lead for a move are the most useful.

I find the two-fingered salute for the wallaby/boomerang insulting (or perhaps it's just the way Bristol guys do it ) and I kept thinking one man was being really affectionate as patted my hand when it was actually the signal for a drop-kick (which I hadn't been taught at that point). We executed the move several times in different dances with no problem, but I still didn't tie up the signal with the move.

OK - I'm probably a bit dim where this is concerned, so my motto, when I'm not sure what's going on, is: follow the lead (carefully)!