Tips and Tricks

[Rachel]

Originally posted by TheTramp

I happen to think that you fall into all of these categories too. I'm not quite sure what happened Just one of those things I guess. I'll come looking for you next time.

Oh wow ... I've gone all red now ... glad no-one else is in the office to see me! Very flattered ... However, I still think it's a big possibility you don't know which Rachel from Northampton you're talking to here. Must be hundreds of us ...

Looking forward to the next time we dance!

Actually, (and this kind of relates to when I've danced with David and Franck, too) I think the best dance we had was our first one ever, because - even though you were obviously so good - I didn't know exactly how good you were at first and didn't have time to work myself up into getting all nervous.

I know this is all completely ridiculous - and I keep telling myself that all the time - but the better someone is, the more scared I get, even if I know the person and know how lovely they are!

But I am beginning to get more confident now - look, I'm even asking men to dance!!! There must be some hope!
Rachel

[TheTramp]

you don't know which Rachel from Northampton you're talking to here. Must be hundreds of us ...

You're the one with the great legs, right?!? (You did say that you were red, right?)

You mean that it's not gotten any better since the first time?? I'll do my best to work on that next time I get to see you....

As for being lovely. You have to remember that I'm mean and nasty and evil (I have a reputation to think of here )

Steve

[Emma]

Originally posted by Rachel
It's just that I keep embarrassing myself by dancing sooo badly with you and some of my very bad habits start coming out - like anticipating spins, when you really wanted to block me and make me turn the other way.

You aren't the only one, Rachel, I find this often happens when I dance with someone that I know is a good dancer. For instance, when I danced with Elliot at Camber I was lousy. And then my trousers came unbuttonned..... :sorry I had the same problem dancing with TheTramp on Wednesday (the dancing, not the trousers!!!)

Originally posted by DavidB
I'm starting to think one of the hardest things about leading is adjusting to the lady - ie leading your moves the way she wants them to be led.

I find it usually takes me about three dances to adapt to someone else's way of dancing - sometimes much longer.

[Rachel]

Originally posted by DavidB
As has been said before, it is the man's fault. I can't get used to the speed that you spin, and I was usually too late to lead you properly. It can get embarrasing if I mis-time a block (especially if Marc or Lily is watching!) I need more practice dancing with you.

I'm starting to think one of the hardest things about leading is adjusting to the lady - ie leading your moves the way she wants them to be led.

David

No, it was definitely me dancing badly in that instance - no matter how good a man's lead is, there's not much he can do (at least, if he doesn't want to injure his partner) when a woman propels herself into a spin with that much force. I honestly don't know why I was doing that so much with you ... (I've been beating myself around the head about it ever since!)

Though you're right about adjusting to your partner - I remember you saying that a Ceroc-taught lady would find a WCS lead very light - and, yes, I do find you have a light lead. Especially as I'd had some very forceful leads that night before dancing with you, so the difference was even more evident.

But, yes please, I'm all for more practising!!!

Oh, but can I just ask - do you think I generally spin too fast, then? Should I try and slow them a bit? Or is the problem more the force of it? Or going to early?
Rachel

[Rachel]

Originally posted by TheTramp
You're the one with the great legs, right?!? (You did say that you were red, right?)

Oh, fraid not - that's definitely not me!

You mean that it's not gotten any better since the first time??

I'm just saying that the more I see you dancing so brilliantly, the more scared I get and my dancing just gets worse and worse ...

As for being lovely. You have to remember that I'm mean and nasty and evil (I have a reputation to think of here )

Ok, sorry - I won't tell a soul that you're actually a little lamb in disguise!

[TheTramp]

I'm just saying that the more I see you dancing so brilliantly, the more scared I get and my dancing just gets worse and worse ...

Hmmm. I think you've maybe got the wrong Tramp then.

One possible solution of course, is to dance with me lots!! Just a suggestion you understand, but if you do want to take me up on it, then I promise not to object....

Steve

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Emma
I find it usually takes me about three dances to adapt to someone else's way of dancing - sometimes much longer.

Yes, I need at the very least one dance just to adjust from one partner to the next (even with Marc), before I can get totally comfortable dancing with them. Which is what I find so hard in London where the norm often seems to be just one dance rather than the customary two in the midlands.

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Rachel
do you think I generally spin too fast, then? Should I try and slow them a bit? Or is the problem more the force of it? Or going to early?

Most ladies would love to be able to spin quickly and stay on balance like you do. It gives you more chance to style after the spin, or the opportunity to do a double spin whenever you want. If you were forcing the spins, you would fall over afterwards, and I can't remember picking you up off the floor. And I've said before - don't worry about your timing!

Only slow down your spinning if you feel that the music calls for it, or you think your partner is trying to slow you down. Otherwise spinning quick is one of your strengths - so keep doing it!

It only affected me because I do a lot of blocked turns. I don't expect the lady to follow every block - especially if I leave them too late (like on a crowded floor). I usually hope the lady doesn't notice, and I would rather miss the block than the alternative. I aim to get the blocking hand in the middle of your back, but if you have turned another 180 degrees...

And next time I'll have 2 dances - if I can keep the other men away from you.

David

[Rachel]

Originally posted by DavidB
And next time I'll have 2 dances - if I can keep the other men away from you.

David

Mmmm, great! I'll make sure no other man gets in the way. Oh except for Steve The Expert Beginner, if he's around. I shall also be studying Lily very hard for dancing tips.

But, the pair of you - couldn't you at least try to dance a little more badly, to ease my nerves somewhat? Maybe tell a few jokes while we're dancing - oh, I think you both do that already -um, drip-feed me alcohol ...?

[TheTramp]

couldn't you at least try to dance a little more badly

I'm sure that I could do this very easily!!

Steve

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Rachel
Oh except for Steve The Expert Beginner, if he's around.

Ok Steve. Double trouble with Rachel. She leads - we follow.

[TheTramp]

Sounds like a plan to me....

Maybe we can enter the Scottish Champs....

Steve

[Rachel]

Originally posted by DavidB
Ok Steve. Double trouble with Rachel. She leads - we follow.

Now I like that idea!

(Must sign off now - though I'm having to take work home with me after, very stupidly (though I wouldn't have missed it!), having spent so much time on the forum today!! Wishing you all a lovely weekend!)

[Gary]

Originally posted by Gadget

I always try to dance with beginners - and most of the time I have excellent dances: They have less preconceptions about what a move should be and are more inclined to go where you lead them instead of where they think you are trying to lead them.
My theory is that if I can't lead a move smoothly with a beginner, then it's not really worth adding to my repertoire. The only exception is ...

I strongly agree. A good quote I saw somewhere is that "dancing with beginners makes you a better leader, dancing with experienced dancers makes you a better dancer". The acid test for "do I know move X" is "can I lead a beginner through move X" without forcing or scaring her.

It's crazy the number of guys who don't dance much (or even at all) with beginner girls. Dancing with beginner girls: makes me a better leader; builds up the pool of experienced girl dancers for later; is a nice thing to do; is a lot of fun. It's a real buzz when the girl says "I didn't know I could do all those moves".

Although as you say there are some exceptions, moves that look/feel very nice but require the follower to know what's going on. Not many, though.

[TheTramp]

My theory is that if I can't lead a move smoothly with a beginner, then it's not really worth adding to my repertoire. The only exception is ...

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with this. I frequently dance with beginners, and if I danced the same way with them as I do with any experienced (or should I say good, cos experience doesn't always mean that!) dancer, they'd run away screaming and never come back.

I have to tone down the type of move (and also the number of moves, and the style) with beginners. And I don't just mean stopping doing the dips etc. but I think that any number of moves with beginners aren't really leadable. A lot of beginners are struggling to hear the beat, and move their feet - start doing anything harder than beginner moves, and they're quite often lost. Next time I'm up in Scotland, if you want to take a real beginner, and start leading her through all the variations on neckbreaks, pretzels, backhanders, archie-spins (all what I would call 'nice' moves) and prove me wrong, I'll be willing to eat my hat.

This doesn't of course apply to those girls who have a natural sense of rhythm, the ability to move, and/or have done some other form of dancing beforehand. Maybe Scottish ladies are just more naturally gifted than their counterparts down here...

I don't disagree with the other statements about beginners - just the one that says if you can't lead a beginner through it, it's not worth doing (just to make myself clear).

Steve

[Gary]

Originally posted by Lou


Guilty as charged, M'Lord.

I've never known really what I should do in a class situation when there's a poor lead. I, and most other ladies, just proceed to where we're meant to be, regardless of a lack of lead. I'm quite self-conscious in a class situation, anyway, and I'd hate to be seen by a teacher doing a move/routine wrong, when it's not my fault & I'd been led badly.

I've been told I'm the "world's worst" follower when I've attempted switching roles, so perhaps I should shut up, but ...

A friend of mine who is a good follower just doesn't move in the class unless the leader actually leads her. She gets some funny looks from some of the guys, because they're used to effectively being led by the girls, but I think it's the only way for us guys to learn.

As a leader, mostly I pick up the new moves quickly and can lead them in the class. Occasionally the move is trickier, and (girls being quicker at learning this stuff than guys, dammit) sometimes the girls try to "help". For me at least, this often kills any chance I have of learning to lead the move. I would like to be more able to learn a move with the girl's help, but it's a skill I don't have much of yet.

It is a big ask, though, for the girl to deliberately look clueless just because the guy isn't up to leading scratch yet. If it's any consolation any time I see a couple not "with it" in class I assume it's the guy's fault.

[TheTramp]

any time I see a couple not "with it" in class I assume it's the guy's fault

Isn't it always the guys fault? Whether in a class, or just in freestyle...

Steve

[Emma]

Originally posted by gcapell


A friend of mine who is a good follower just doesn't move in the class unless the leader actually leads her.

I do this, sometimes, but really it makes me feel so mean. Sometimes men say to me 'Oh I'll be alright you know what you're doing' and it doesn't seem fair at that point to just not follow if they haven't got the move.

[TheTramp]

men say to me 'Oh I'll be alright you know what you're doing'

Ummm. Good job that it's a FEmale led dance eh. Or they'd really be in trouble....

Steve

[Heather]

Originally posted by TheTramp

Isn't it always the guys fault? Whether in a class, or just in freestyle...

Steve

.......... Or life in general !!!!!!!LOL.


Heather,