New Moves

[Robin]

Following on from DavidJames "Move guru's revisited", what should constitute a new move ?

Whats the criteria ... there's lots of "variations on" but what should a totally new move have? Personally I'd like to see some segmentation - something like:-

Basic Core & Leadable moves

Variations on moves

Yell the lead like mad moves

You need to know your partner *really* well moves

Where's the ambulance moves

.....and last but not least
The bedroom might be more appropriate moves

Any thoughts?

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Robin

what should constitute a new move ?

I'd be gobsmacked if anyone came up with a truly new move. They're all old, but some of them are older than others...

Originally Posted by Robin

Basic Core & Leadable moves

OK, probably silly question, but what's an unleadable move?
(Choreographed?)

Originally Posted by Robin

Yell the lead like mad moves

Ooh, I've got one of those - a comb variant thing where the lady ducks under the man's arm into a drop. I have to say "Duck" for a new partner to warn them to, well, duck. Or quack.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I'd be gobsmacked if anyone came up with a truly new move. They're all old, but some of them are older than others...
OK, probably silly question, but what's an unleadable move?
(Choreographed?)
Ooh, I've got one of those - a comb variant thing where the lady ducks under the man's arm into a drop. I have to say "Duck" for a new partner to warn them to, well, duck. Or quack.

Well, I figure an unleadable move fits in the " you really need to know your partner well" category - ie you've practised/choreographed that one move.. as you surmised.

As far as the move you quoted, methinks that fits in the " Yell the lead like mad" category ... mind you, you'd look a bit silly quacking at the top of your voice on the dancefloor!

[jiveoholic]

Originally Posted by Robin

Personally I'd like to see some segmentation - something like:-

Basic Core & Leadable moves

Variations on moves

Yell the lead like mad moves

You need to know your partner *really* well moves

Where's the ambulance moves

.....and last but not least
The bedroom might be more appropriate moves

Any thoughts?

I think these are a good scale - but perhaps mixing attributes. When I was collecting moves and got to over a hundred or so, I had to find a way of being able to search whether a new one was really an old one and in my list. By defining attributes I could restrict the database seach. I used "difficulty", "sensuality" and "safety". For example, difficulty goes from beginner, through intermediate that one can drag a new beginner through, to variations of beginner (ie intermediate) to "unleadable - without having been taught the move" and finally to very stretching to accomplish even if you know it is coming!

[Purple Sparkler]

I've got one of those - a comb variant thing where the lady ducks under the man's arm into a drop.

That one's called the Swayze Dip. At least it is if you learned it in SimonSays' class at the last HMS President tea dance. He calls it that, so he said, "because I nicked it from 'Dirty Dancing'". And I only remember because we danced together last night and he used it.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Purple Sparkler

That one's called the Swayze Dip. At least it is if you learned it in SimonSays' class at the last HMS President tea dance. He calls it that, so he said, "because I nicked it from 'Dirty Dancing'". And I only remember because we danced together last night and he used it.

It's been around for a while, I believe, like everything - good name though.

I think it's one of those moves you'd only use with a partner you felt was good enough not to be phased by it, so it can be seen as a compliment to you that he'd lead you into such a move.

[Simon r]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I'd be gobsmacked if anyone came up with a truly new move. They're all old, but some of them are older than others...

Wow thanks for that ...
work about two to three hours a day working on new moves for comps that i then pass on to my classes when i teach...
don't think i am the only one either.....
just another sweeping statement .....
well done

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Simon r

Wow thanks for that ...
work about two to three hours a day working on new moves for comps that i then pass on to my classes when i teach...
don't think i am the only one either.....
just another sweeping statement .....
well done

My apologies - thought your routine last night was great. And I know lots of other people appreciated your hard work.

But, there's only a finite number of ways to turn / spin / move people, and in thr thousands of years humans have been dancing, and hundreds of years recording dance moves, I'd have (yep, sweeping generalisation) thought we'd have exhausted anything technically "new" as a combination. Although, one could certainly make a case for "new" being specific to MJ, to ceroc, or even to a specific class.

[Gadget]

I would like to think that I come up with a "new move" {deliberetly } about once or twice a month - by this I mean a move that I have not been taught or 'stolen' from someone else. A few from my current repertoir that I have not seen anyone else do (my made-up names):

- Comb arm roll into sway: From a standard comb, right arm draws arc between you, collecting the ladys 'combed' arm and continuing the circle as you step forward to the left and leading the lady into your right hand side as a normal 'sway' position. {note, you are leading this with the fore-arm; arm to arm contact, not hand to hand}

- First move rushed exit: Standard first move ("step in and twist out"), but the lead for the 'twist back' is continued as you turn anti-clockwise with it and take a small step back almost behind the lady as she moves forward, continue the momentum and lead the lady into a traveling turn anti-clockwise as you straighten your line and step back.

- Man's drop-over with carress into first move: Double hand hold, turn and drop over to have lady's hands on own hips, release and drop low while rotating to face (body reasonably upright, most action from the knees), then a slow stand up into ballroom/first move hold while your hands behind lady's legs and traced up behind her into the hold (no contact - just illusion).

- Lady side-slides:R-R and wrap in to sway position collecting left. Turn lady out to be in same position behind the right arm instead of infront of it (keeping left high above right shoulder). Lead with left above head and extended to the left with the right above the left shoulder while taking a small side-step right (This should be a mirror of the last position). Release with the left hand and side-step left as the right is taken low to the right leading the lady into a wrap position. Repeat.

- Swizzle walk-round into first move: From standard swizzle (lady's left in 1/2 nelson behind her in your right, lady's right extended in your left), side-step in to the lady's right (ie your left) and lead lady into walk-round with right hand, placing lady's right on own right shoulder. Release right hand when walk started. When lady is at other side, release hand from shoulder (just kept there to prevent her from wandering off) and step back to the left as the lady continues. {Timing of this and the the next bit is vital} you need to now catch the lady's right with the left as it trails off the back of your left shoulder and lead her into a step back, following and collecting into a 'ballroom' hold.

As far as I am aware, each of these are new moves. Anyone know any different?
{... may be there is a reason that no-one else does them }

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Gadget

I would like to think that I come up with a "new move" {deliberetly } about once or twice a month

Well, I've described a few moves here and there, but I'd never presume to imagine these are new, simply because they're new to me. Possibly I'm too modest (does that really seem likely to you? )

Originally Posted by Gadget

{... may be there is a reason that no-one else does them }

Of course - they're just too advanced for anyone else. Obviously.

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Gadget

- First move rushed exit: Standard first move ("step in and twist out"), but the lead for the 'twist back' is continued as you turn anti-clockwise with it and take a small step back almost behind the lady as she moves forward, continue the momentum and lead the lady into a traveling turn anti-clockwise as you straighten your line and step back.

As far as I am aware, each of these are new moves. Anyone know any different?

Always hard to tell from descriptions alone, but I've been taught a move that fits that description in JazzJive, and had it repeated in later weeks. We could look at the specifics to be more sure if you like, but what's the point? The move is new for you and for those you dance with. In the end, isn't that all that matters?

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Of course - they're just too advanced for anyone else. Obviously.

yeaaaaa, must be it.
(these moves are all leadable intoable and outofable with beginners, so either we have a lot of beginner advanced dancers {like Tramp } or they are not that advanced.)

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Always hard to tell from descriptions alone, but I've been taught a move that fits that description in JazzJive, and had it repeated in later weeks. We could look at the specifics to be more sure if you like, but what's the point? The move is new for you and for those you dance with. In the end, isn't that all that matters?

cool means that I can't be accused of not dancing MJ... well, MJ moves anyway...
What's the point? to share. I keep getting accused of not dancing the same as everyone else - so I'm on a mission to get everyone else dancing like me {}