The shoulder drop - confusing

[Jon L]

There is the move that has been introduced into the ceroc manual called the shoulder drop.

There is also prior to it's introduction a full "drop/seducer" called a shoulder drop where the man steps forward his right arm to the ladies left shoulder - she hooks her right arm under his right and the guy steps and lunges forward.

The one that was introduced by ceroc isn't a drop at all and is slightly misleading IMO.

Comments /disagreements welcome.

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by Jon L

There is the move that has been introduced into the ceroc manual called the shoulder drop.

There is also prior to it's introduction a full "drop/seducer" called a shoulder drop where the man steps forward his right arm to the ladies left shoulder - she hooks her right arm under his right and the guy steps and lunges forward.

The one that was introduced by ceroc isn't a drop at all and is slightly misleading IMO.

Comments /disagreements welcome.

You drop the follower's hand onto your shoulder - what's the problem?

Are you sure that the drop you are reffering to is known by that name country-wide?

[spindr]

Ah, you mean the shoulder drop.

SpinDr

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by spindr

Ah, you mean the shoulder drop.

It's a bit of a weird one, isn't it? I first learned (well, came across) it a few weeks ago at ISH. I think it's a little bit naff to be honest - and I speak as someone who's defended the Train in the past...

It's more like, I dunno, a 1-handed catapult really - or maybe that's just my weird way of looking at things.

But then, I'm still wondering why no-one teaches the Butterfly anymore...

[JoC]

I kinda like it, it's a nice easy move to learn and you can be a bit 'ta-dah' at the point where the follower moves right and the lead moves left (if you want). (Commonly used up this way, so as a follower I'd be in trouble if I didn't like it.)

No useful comment to add though on the original question...

[Dazzle]

The move is quite common place, but maybe could have been named better to avoid the inference of a drop. A shoulder step away or a shoulder hand drop? But it has been known as a shoulder drop aound these here parts for longer than I have been dancing.

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by JoC

I kinda like it, it's a nice easy move to learn

WHen it was introduced I had more problems getting it right than most of the next month's intermediate classes!! I refute that it is in any way "easy" to learn.

Fairly simple to do in classes, but in freestyle - the lady will normally travel too far to your left behind you and you exit like a cattapult exit rather than pulling through. (or try to pull-through from miles away and contort yourself & your partner) It actually requires a good bit of skill in leading to perform correctly: every bit of it has potential timing pitfalls and leading difficulties.
Or maybe I'm just a slow learner

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by JoC

I kinda like it, it's a nice easy move to learn and you can be a bit 'ta-dah' at the point where the follower moves right and the lead moves left (if you want). (Commonly used up this way, so as a follower I'd be in trouble if I didn't like it.)

Jo, we should form a wee club, as I seem to be agreeing with everything you say tonight. (Except for that yucky marmite stuff )

I really dig the shoulder drop, one of the very first moves I learnt – I'm just too often too slow to remember to do the turny bit after the lady's return to do it as much as I'd like to. (How many "to" and "too"s are in that sentence?! Too many!!)

I like to sometimes throw in an extra lean out just to see if my partner is paying attention.

[Whitebeard]

Originally Posted by Gadget

Or maybe I'm just a slow learner.

Oh, no. You can't take that away from me. I'm the original, purely pukkah, absolutely genuine, totally sluggish, slow slow learner. My only claim to fame.

[El Salsero Gringo]

I think the Shoulder Drop is the silliest move ever taught since, ooh, let's see, er... the In and Out.

Bring back the Wurlitzer and Hatchback, I say.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

I think the Shoulder Drop is the silliest move ever taught since, ooh, let's see, er... the In and Out.

Weirdly enough, I'm starting to develop a fondness for the In and Out... I guess it's one of those moves which, because you (should) have a good deal of control, you can use to do a variety of things from; slow it down, speed up, wiggle, etc.

Could be just a phase I'm going through, of course.

[Jon L]

Originally Posted by Dazzle

The move is quite common place, but maybe could have been named better to avoid the inference of a drop. A shoulder step away or a shoulder hand drop? But it has been known as a shoulder drop aound these here parts for longer than I have been dancing.

Shoulder hand drop would be more appropriate I reckon. The term "drop" is misleading when the ceroc version of this clearly isn't !

[Jon L]

Originally Posted by Gadget

You drop the follower's hand onto your shoulder - what's the problem?

Are you sure that the drop you are reffering to is known by that name country-wide?

The version I learnt first is one of Lounge Lizards from his DVD (number 2), probably ceroc have a different name for it. I came accross the ceroc version in 2004 for the first time (about a year ago), I learnt the LL version at the start of 2003 - had the ceroc version been in existence prior to that ?

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Jon L

There is the move that has been introduced into the ceroc manual called the shoulder drop.

You've SEEN the Ceroc manual

[Jon L]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

You've SEEN the Ceroc manual

Aye that be right sir, someone showed it to me once when they were undergoing teacher training, don't worry I am not about to become a teacher

As you kindly reminded me once I am too short (5'5'') and too old (36) and your words "too fat" (12.5 stone) in fact I am about to go to the gymn this afternoon - can't make MJC I have something else on this evening

[Andy McGregor]

Originally Posted by Jon L

As you kindly reminded me once I am too short (5'5'') and too old (36) and your words "too fat" (12.5 stone) in fact I am about to go to the gymn this afternoon - can't make MJC I have something else on this evening

I think that was something along the lines of 'we're both too short, old, fat and ugly to be Ceroc teachers'

There is absolutely no reason why either of us can't teach Modern Jive. In fact, I have been doing so since the spring. JonL and any other dancer irrespective of age, weight, height or beauty is welcome on our Teacher Training course - although Nigel would prefer it if JonL was a shapely, blonde - you never know what affect that trip to the gym might have in his physique

[Jon L]

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

I think that was something along the lines of 'we're both too short, old, fat and ugly to be Ceroc teachers'

There is absolutely no reason why either of us can't teach Modern Jive. In fact, I have been doing so since the spring. JonL and any other dancer irrespective of age, weight, height or beauty is welcome on our Teacher Training course - although Nigel would prefer it if JonL was a shapely, blonde - you never know what affect that trip to the gym might have in his physique

I'll make an appointment at my hair salon and see what they can come up with

[JoC]

Originally Posted by Gadget

WHen it was introduced I had more problems getting it right than most of the next month's intermediate classes!! I refute that it is in any way "easy" to learn.

Fairly simple to do in classes, but in freestyle - the lady will normally travel too far to your left behind you and you exit like a cattapult exit rather than pulling through. (or try to pull-through from miles away and contort yourself & your partner) It actually requires a good bit of skill in leading to perform correctly: every bit of it has potential timing pitfalls and leading difficulties.
Or maybe I'm just a slow learner

I'm starting to wonder if I'm thinking of the same move but I really think I am. As I'm not a lead (although the one class I have done as a lead had this move and I thought it was okay... ) I can't really appreciate the problem. As a follow, it seems straight forward enough, once you've turned I step to your right, we step back together, you put my hand on your shoulder, my hand trails down your back to waiting hand and you hatchback me in front, no?

You've got me thinking now Gadget! Am I forcing my partners to contort their shoulder joints everytime they lead this move?!

And Ducasi...no I clearly wasn't paying attention!!! Was definitely guilty of a little anticipation on Saturday at times...

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by JoC

And Ducasi...no I clearly wasn't paying attention!!! Was definitely guilty of a little anticipation on Saturday at times...

Gotcha!

I really don't see the difficulty in this move beyond getting into the start of it – I always miss the opportunity to go into it as the lady returns.

That's one of the reasons I end up doing so many yo-yos in a row – I'm trying to hit the right spot for a shoulder drop but I keep missing it!

(Then I think stuff it, let's do a catapult instead! )

[ducasi]

Originally Posted by ducasi

Gotcha!

I've had a think about this... I reckon the main reason I can catch my partners out by doing this simple variation, (and things like it,) is that most of my moves are text-book beginners' moves and so it's very easy for a follower to go into auto-dancer mode, as 9 times out of 10 (or more) the moves will progress exactly as they anticipate.

It's only when I step away from that that you have to begin to pay attention. Maybe I should have a T-shirt that says "I'm trying to do something you won't expect, please be patient, and pay attention."