Body isolations

[LMC]

As Jayne said in the last post of this thread, I can do isolations in my head. How to translate them to the rest of me is the problem.

The linked thread is actually on body rolls - but isolations have to come first. I've known for a few weeks that I need to work on these, but it was forcefully brought home to me at last night's AT lesson just how awesomely cr@p I am at isolation.

Short of suggesting I volunteer to be a magicians assistant and sawn in half, has anyone any (further) useful advice/comments/exercises to improve isolation please?

Thanks in advance

[Tessalicious]

Oooh, very tough to do without being able to demonstrate. My body rolls and other isolations are by no means perfect, but I have been taught the principles at various salsa and WCS classes:

The standard 'talk-through' for a downwards body-roll is "shoulders, chest, hips, knees" which describes the bit that ought to be brought forwards from the rest of the body at each stage. The trick is not to overcompensate by sending the other parts back from your main axis - that just looks like you're being tickled. Practise it in slow motion, in steps and then fluidly, in front of a mirror and with no-one watching. Then try using it during a dance, and don't panic if it doesn't work the first few times.

Another useful isolation to learn is to be able to stand up straight with your knees slightly bent, and flex each foot to change your weight distribution over your feet and bring one leg straight and the other leg more bent, without allowing your overall height to change, or any extraneous movement above your hips. This is great for developing the muscles everywhere below your knees, making it more possible to control your poise and balance.

Re-reading that, I'm not sure I'd know what I meant if I hadn't written it (if you know what I mean) but as I said, I will show you when I see you.

[Dizzy]

Originally Posted by Tessalicious

Oooh, very tough to do without being able to demonstrate. My body rolls and other isolations are by no means perfect

The standard 'talk-through' for a downwards body-roll is "shoulders, chest, hips, knees" which describes the bit that ought to be brought forwards from the rest of the body at each stage. The trick is not to overcompensate by sending the other parts back from your main axis - that just looks like you're being tickled. Practise it in slow motion, in steps and then fluidly, in front of a mirror and with no-one watching. Then try using it during a dance, and don't panic if it doesn't work the first few times.

As I am sure you have seen me do them on numerous occasions, there is not much that I can add to that except that the best technique I have developed is while doing the body rolls, I also circle my foot in a clockwise movement with my knee bent slightly, which initiates the movement in the rest of my body.

I know that sounds slightly confusing written down but in practice it works!!!

[Sparkles]

It might be a good idea to start off by learning to isolate the different parts of your body before you start to do body-rolls or ripples.
Obviously you know that your arms, legs, head, hips etc. can all move independantly of each other, the trick is remembering this while you're dancing. It's all too easy to get caught up in the flow of the dance but if you can use the parts of your body that are not currently occupied in the movement you're doing to accent the tune you're dancing to musically it's really very effective (the spare arm is always a good place to start).

As for advice on body-rolls, the key is to practice in front of a mirror, start very slowly and gradually try to get faster (as Tessalicious has already said ) - and whatever you do don't get angry with yourself if you can't do it at first because it's tricky!
... or you could ask Zebra Woman and I for a master class, right Clive?!

[Mary]

I thought I could do body rolls.

Then I was in a studio (that had mirrors) with Kate (Hargreaves) and she showed me hers .....



M

[Donna]

The standard 'talk-through' for a downwards body-roll is "shoulders, chest, hips, knees"

And of course the standard 'talk-through' for an upwards body-roll is "knees, hips, chest, shoulders! I think the easiest way to do these is to imagine that you are a snake. Ssssssss. Same with side rolls only these are easier because all you have to imagine is a very low arch on one side of you and start to duck under it side ways - head first, then your shoulder follows your head, then your hips and furthest knee should be in line with the tip bit of your body. So your weight should now be on the foot in whichever direction you were doing a body roll.

Going back to the forward roll, I was alway told my line dance teacher to imagine you are throwing up.

Practise it in slow motion, in steps and then fluidly, in front of a mirror and with no-one watching. Then try using it during a dance, and don't panic if it doesn't work the first few times.

Good point! Practicing it in slow motion and in a mirror will help it to become second nature so then you can feel what you are doing and so will no longer need help from watching in the mirror anymore.

Another useful isolation to learn is to be able to stand up straight with your knees slightly bent, and flex each foot to change your weight distribution over your feet and bring one leg straight and the other leg more bent, without allowing your overall height to change, or any extraneous movement above your hips.

A bit like '2 left feets' avatar?

[David Franklin]

Originally Posted by Donna

Going back to the forward roll, I was alway told my line dance teacher to imagine you are throwing up.

Seriously? Because one of the bits of advice Nina gives is to be careful, otherwise it looks like you're throwing up...

[Donna]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

Seriously? Because one of the bits of advice Nina gives is to be careful, otherwise it looks like you're throwing up...

Seriously? Maybe she meant not to pull funny faces at the same time! I was told when I started practicing them years ago, that when I was concentrating so much on the side ones, my jaw used to go in the same direction too! Oh dear! I got out of that habit after, but hey it really helped!

[Tessalicious]

Originally Posted by Sparkles

It might be a good idea to start off by learning to isolate the different parts of your body before you start to do body-rolls or ripples.

Quite possibly - I had never even thought that body isolations were things that normal people could do until I was taught body rolls at salsa though. Since, I've picked up other stuff, but that's the one that is taught most I think, because that's what most people want to be able to do.

Whether it works to learn it that way round is probably quite individual-specific. But as always, I bow to Sparkles' superior knowledge of the way things ought to be done, she knows way more about that than me.

Originally Posted by Donna

And of course the standard 'talk-through' for an upwards body-roll is "knees, hips, chest, shoulders! I think the easiest way to do these is to imagine that you are a snake. Ssssssss. Same with side rolls only these are easier because all you have to imagine is a very low arch on one side of you and start to duck under it side ways - head first, then your shoulder follows your head, then your hips and furthest knee should be in line with the tip bit of your body. So your weight should now be on the foot in whichever direction you were doing a body roll.

True, but sideways rolls are (I think) harder to use in freestyle partner dance than forwards ones. I could be wrong, but somehow it just doesn't seem like it would fit unless being led, which is very rare.

A bit like '2 left feets' avatar?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Mary]

Originally Posted by David Franklin

Seriously? Because one of the bits of advice Nina gives is to be careful, otherwise it looks like you're throwing up...

Yep, I've heard this caution as well.

One teaching tip I heard for the ladies is to imagine you are standing in front of Viktor and you want to let every inch of the front of your body to touch him in the roll, like a body caress. But that would be after you've fought your way through the scrum of ladies all waiting to dance with him!

M

[Andreas]

Forwards rolls can be practiced by imagining rising at the other side of a horizontal bar, like in gymnastics.

Anyway, the ways of practicing isolations that worked best for me are:

- sit on a chair and shift various parts of your torso
- lie on bed and do micro-movements

Quite frankly, if you are trying to do micro-movements (small amplitude motion) you will be much less likely to develop bad habits because you don't actually 'see' what you are doing but have to 'feel' it. Thus you will (should) automatically concentrate more on the separation itself than the result. Looking at a mirror can be useful but also very deceiving.

[LMC]

Great stuff so far thanks - at the moment, it's definitely the isolations I'm interested in - body rolls are obviously far too advanced

Thanks to all those who have offered demonstrations, will take you up on that...

Will belly dancing classes help? - I remember feeling that the one at SP in September did, a bit. Unfortunately, there was so much to bring home from that one that that particular bit kind of got lost...

Mary - me like

[El Salsero Gringo]

Originally Posted by LMC

As Jayne said in the last post of this thread, I can do isolations in my head. How to translate them to the rest of me is the problem.

Curiously, I have no problem with the four-minute mile in my head. (Heck, in my head my time to beat is two minutes 22). I'm also working on the translation thing.

[Donna]

True, but sideways rolls are (I think) harder to use in freestyle partner dance than forwards ones. I could be wrong, but somehow it just doesn't seem like it would fit unless being led, which is very rare.

Your obviously going to do more forward body rolls as you are mainly facing your partner, but sometimes he may do a man stance whereby he leads you to face side on and freeze...then there's your chance to do a side body roll!

[Donna]

Originally Posted by Mary

Yep, I've heard this caution as well.

One teaching tip I heard for the ladies is to imagine you are standing in front of Viktor and you want to let every inch of the front of your body to touch him in the roll, like a body caress. But that would be after you've fought your way through the scrum of ladies all waiting to dance with him!

M

I hope Viktor sees this! It'll make his day mary!

[LMC]

Originally Posted by Donna

Your obviously going to do more forward body rolls as you are mainly facing your partner, but sometimes he may do a man stance whereby he leads you to face side on and freeze...then there's your chance to do a side body roll!

Don't confuse me with advanced stuff please

More on isolations please? - I am getting this in my head but I'm still disconnected.

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Tessalicious

True, but sideways rolls are (I think) harder to use in freestyle partner dance than forwards ones. I could be wrong, but somehow it just doesn't seem like it would fit unless being led, which is very rare.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I'd argue that point. It is not so much a matter of being led into them but a question of how you move, forwards or sideways. If you decide to walk forwards at all times you will indeed only have limited application for it. I deliberately say limited because there is always space for small lateral rolls

I often combine forwards with lateral rolls because always forwards is boring after a while

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by LMC

More on isolations please? - I am getting this in my head but I'm still disconnected.

Sit on a chair and do rib shifts forwards, backwards and to the sides w/o moving your bum and shoulders. That will be a bit hard work to start with. If you get sore then you'll be doing it right In my opinion rib shifts are THE essential exercise to do decent body rolls.

[LMC]

Anyone else wishing to try the above excellent exercise: probably best not in the office, or a helpful colleague might tell you that you *can* go to the bathroom

I'm sure such reactions will be less likely if I can get to doing the isolations properly, it'll just take longer than 15 minutes

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by LMC

Anyone else wishing to try the above excellent exercise: probably best not in the office, or a helpful colleague might tell you that you *can* go to the bathroom

That'd mean you are not doing it right. I do that frequently on the bus to and from work and don't get weird looks because people don't see it. After all, you are not moving your bum or your shoulders. The amplitude of the motion is small enough to be more or less invisble.

I'm sure such reactions will be less likely if I can get to doing the isolations properly, it'll just take longer than 15 minutes

Correct But if you, as mentioned above, keep it small nobody will notice.