Double Pretzel

[Stuart M]

OK Franck, a challenge for you...

Explain a double pretzel, or even better explain that pretzel-based move you taught on Monday 21st when I was busy taxiing! Wendy tried to show me it later, but I couldn't end it right. Any other way to finish it?

[Franck]

Right

Thanks for the challenge.

For starters, I am going to assume that you are familiar with the regular Pretzel. If not, well, there would be too much to describe
To move on to a double Pretzel, first do the signal, left hand up, right hand up, and loop yourself (men with your right hand). This is where it changes. At this stage instead of raising the left hand to un-loop the ladies anti-clockwise, men keep turning anti-clockwise on the spot keeping both hands low and out to the side. Then, raise your left hand (as if combing your hair) while still turning until you are side by side with the ladies (mens left hip to ladies left hip) - to get the ladies in that position, you need to lead them with your left hand until you are back at the beginning of the Pretzel (ie left hand up and right hand down - beat 2 of the Pretzel). It is also important to keep your hand holds fairly loose to avoid arms twisting uncomfortably

From this point you can either finish the next Pretzel normally or repeat

I will save the wrap and lean for another post.

Cheers,

Franck.

[Stuart M]

If you see some bloke with a printout on Wednesday night torturing some poor woman, it's probably me

Ta Franck

[Franck]

Well don't thank me until you try it, describing moves online without pictures / partner is almost as hard as trying to make sense of it later

You could always make up your own move, adding a drop or two, whoops I mean dips. and maybe a few double / treble spins to spice it up !

[Franck]

Originally posted by Franck

I will save the wrap and lean for another post.

Well here I go.

To get into the wrap and lean, you have 2 options (well there are more, but 2 will do just now).
Option 1:
You can start from an almost pretzel - signal behind the back, but remove hand as you step in raising the left hand, then men turn clock-wise (making sure you lower your left hand) until you are in a half-nelson position facing your partners who have stepped to the other side (under your left arm). Men signal with your flat right hand. Ladies place your left hand flat against the man's hand and from then on, men raise your right hand to wrap the ladies clockwise as you step forward, so you end up side by side with your right hand by your partners right hip.
Walk clockwise for couple of beats and then to exit (the lean part), apply gentle pressure on the ladies back with your right arm to get her to bend forward. Step forward as the ladies step back (extricate themselves is probably more accurate ). Finish like a catapult...

Option 2:
From within the normal Pretzel (or double pretzel), Step in raising the left hand, raise the right hand (while lowering the left as you walk past each other), but from there, use your right hand to wrap the ladies clockwise on the spot as you step in side by side with them (bending your left arm behind your back), from then on see above (2nd paragraph for walk and lean exit).

I hope this makes sense to anyone, but if it did not, just go to your regular teacher and ask if they can include the above in a forthcoming class

Cheers,

Franck.

[Heather]

I'd steer clear of pretzels of any kind!! Look what happened to President Bush!!! Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!
Seriously, a lot of us ladies would prefer several simple moves, well executed and in time to the music, than a lot of these complicated moves that, when not done properly, make you look a real prat, and feel like a knitting pattern.
This was, as I recall, a topic discussed in one of the previous discussion forums(Ican't remember which) and one of the points made was that, unless there was a sense of rhythm, then no matter how expert you were at performing the most complicated of moves, it was all to no avail.
What do other ladies think? What do you prefer?

[Stuart M]

On the point about doing lots of complex moves - it's difficult to know what each lady prefers (that's life, Stuart... ). I tend to do a fair number of moves in a routine - I just can't stick to the basics. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

I do try to avoid doing too many spins for the ladies, if that's a help - I know some gals think there's too much spinning. And if it's a fast record, I'll stick to the basics.

By the way, turned out I did know how to do a double pretzel, thanks to Mhairi (can't remember the right spelling) showing me how it's done last night. I read the instructions wrong, Franck: d'oh!


Stuart

[Franck]

Originally posted by Stuart M

By the way, turned out I did know how to do a double pretzel, thanks to Mhairi (can't remember the right spelling) showing me how it's done last night. I read the instructions wrong, Franck: d'oh!
Stuart

Well, there's not substitute for a good teacher (spelled Mairi ). I am glad you worked it out in the end.

As for the next point:

Originally posted by Heather

Seriously, a lot of us ladies would prefer several simple moves, well executed and in time to the music, than a lot of these complicated moves that, when not done properly, make you look a real prat, and feel like a knitting pattern.

Heather is right (Well who wants to disagree with Little Miss Bossy? ), It is no good trying to do complex moves when you cannot do basic moves properly (especially leading and beat). However, there is nothing wrong with fantastically complex moves and surprising changes when the man is leading properly (and the woman is not a beginner ).

By the way I did not know President Bush was a Cerocer

Franck.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Surely Stuart M got that right .. Mhairi is the correct spelling - I know 4 of them and ive never seen it spelt Mairi.

I can also spell 'disestablishme..' er.. no maybe i cant.

[Franck]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Surely Stuart M got that right .. Mhairi is the correct spelling - I know 4 of them and ive never seen it spelt Mairi.

Nope, definitely Mairi ... I have also met quite a few Mhairi /Mairi and many spellings are possible. Mairi (Wednesday teacher) is the second person I know to spell it Mairi

Franck

[Heather]

Franck and Scathe are BOTH quite correct in their spelling.
My niece is called Mairi and I have also come across many Mhairi's in my teaching career. I have also known a Mairearard !!

[CeeCee]

I recently had the dubious honour of being harrassed by a chap at a regular venue who pestered me to show him the double pretzel.

I'm not a fan of this family of moves. The sight of the leader's spare hand behind his back to signal the impending torment can be enough to make me cringe and want to cry or crumble into an unhappy heap on the floor. The first few posts on this ancient but relevant thread illustrate just some of the reasons why I detest the pretzel. Many leaders try to do it quickly and roughly long before they are ready to lead it properly and the follower’s life is made miserable during the learning process.

I happily abort the move with a guy I don’t trust because my shoulder joints are more important than his ego. Only a couple of guys I know lead it comfortably and my many favourite dancers (thankfully) don’t have it in their repertoire at all.

With this in mind, I declined the invitation, as pretzels of any kind are right at the bottom of my list of moves to be encouraged.

He refused to let it rest. He repeatedly asked me, I explained I don't like the move, I suggested he ask a teacher, he returned later in the evening to attempt to demonstrate it on me. I was not happy.

Why was his desire to do this move more important than my desire to avoid it?

originally posted by Heather
Seriously, a lot of us ladies would prefer several simple moves, well executed and in time to the music, than a lot of these complicated moves that, when not done properly, make you look a real prat, and feel like a knitting pattern.

Well said Heather, "feel like a knitting pattern" is a great description.

As Stuart M said we can feel like we're being tortured.

Oh and why so many hideous variations?

pretzel
pretzel plus
almost pretzel
double pretzel
open pretzel
open pretzel sway
Cynthia's pretzel
Cynthia's pretzel double basket
almost Pretzel Sway Walkaround
double pretzel duck comb elbow walk
oh dear, I hope I don't regret supplying this list.

Why not keep the moves simple, keep the moves comfortable, let's both enjoy the dance.
As Heather asked nearly four years ago,

What do other ladies think? What do you prefer?

[El Salsero Gringo]

A four and a half year thread resurrection ... respect!

It just goes to show, things were different back then. Gods walked the earth and Franck posted.

(Some things were the same though. Even in those days of yore, threads were being derailed with discussions about spellings and other trivia...)

[TA Guy]

Personally I've never come across a lady who actively dislikes the Pretzel freestyling yet, it's a fairly core intermediate move and does flow nicely (on the other hand, a fair few have told me they don't like the windmill, and that's a beginner move, so hey!). But I have had some tell me they don't like the double pretzel, and once you open pandoras box, you always get blokes who extend it to become a triple or quad pretzel like those that do four windmills on the trot. I can understand that's going a bit far. LOL.

I quite like the pretzel family because there are some neat variations down that side. In the move monsters defense, you also get ladies keen on new moves, asking for repeats if they 'dont get it' so to speak. We men can never win, it's a law isn't it?

[mrs_warwick]

Originally Posted by TA Guy

In the move monsters defense, you also get ladies keen on new moves, asking for repeats if they 'dont get it' so to speak. We men can never win, it's a law isn't it?

I think the important thing here is 'asking for repeats'. If you are both happy to repeat a move then I don't see that's a problem. If, however, one person has stated that they don't like a particular move for whatever reason, then that should be respected. Would you (generic, not TA guy specifically) repeatedly pester someone to practise drops?

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by CeeCee

Why so many hideous variations?
...
almost pretzel

I didn't realise anyone thought the almost pretzel was hideous - it seems as harmless as a travelling return (but to the leader's left side). Ahh well.

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally Posted by TA Guy

a fair few have told me they don't like the windmill, and that's a beginner move, so hey!

Not any more, it's not

[Sheepman]

Originally Posted by CeeCee

oh dear, I hope I don't regret supplying this list.

I'm curious now, wondering what all those variations are. (But not curious enough to want to learn them!)

For years I thought the pretzel was a great move, and once I'd learned the double, then I could never do a single again but the urge to do it has gone, along with many other moves (eg the windmill, the half & full nelson, and plenty that I don't know names of.) Then recently I learnt it as a follower (with a good leader), and my main impression was "what a boring move for the follower." Why did no one tell me when I was doing doubles, triples, quadruples ...

In the USA a few weeks ago there was a "fun" competition, during one section the compere was making fun of the pretzel and encouraging us to do as many as possible. I reckoned I could take anyone who was there, but I didn't want to have that much fun!

Hey, there's an idea for Musselburgh's next fun category, Pretzel Max!

Greg

[Stuart M]

Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

A four and a half year thread resurrection ... respect!

It just goes to show, things were different back then. Gods walked the earth and Franck posted.

Well, I don't know about Heather and Smurfy Boy, but I've always pictured myself as more of the "Monkey" sort of God with a cute wee cloud to fly about on. Walking is more a Jesus sort of thing, y'know?

Thread Number 8, started with post 39. Talk about blast from the past...and I still can't lead a double pretzel properly