Alternative Hand Hold?

[Gus]

Wonder if the assorted intelligencia of the forum could help me.

Couple of times over the past month I've danced with partners who kept on ignoring my attempts at a 'standard' hand hold but swivelled their hand into a pea knuckle grip (as I believe the Kiwis call it). To try to explain, instead of simply draping their finger over the top of my index finger, they clamp their finger horizontally along my fingers. This makes more subtle leads and just general dancing more difficult (IMHO). What worried me was the offender last night was my demo who years back I spend some time coaching. No idea why she's now changed style.

Any idea where this trend comes from or is it just a local outbreak of cr*p dancing?

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally Posted by Gus

Wonder if the assorted intelligencia of the forum could help me.

Couple of times over the past month I've danced with partners who kept on ignoring my attempts at a 'standard' hand hold but swivelled their hand into a pea knuckle grip (as I believe the Kiwis call it). To try to explain, instead of simply draping their finger over the top of my index finger, they clamp their finger horizontally along my fingers. This makes more subtle leads and just general dancing more difficult (IMHO). What worried me was the offender last night was my demo who years back I spend some time coaching. No idea why she's now changed style.

Any idea where this trend comes from or is it just a local outbreak of cr*p dancing?

Haven't noticed it myself
Did you tell her that her hand hold wasn't good for the leader

[Gus]

Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil

Haven't noticed it myself

I've only expereinced it fairly recently in the N West. Wonder if we have a 'rogue' teacher on the loose.

Originally Posted by Tazmanian Devil

Did you tell her that her hand hold wasn't good for the leader

Ahem ... after the last time I tried giving feedback I thought it was just better to suffer the consequences.

[Donna]

I think it would be better to say something rather than get your fingers broken. If she wants to storm off in a huff because she can't except good advice (thanks for yours last night Gus! x) then that's her problem. I'm sure somebody else will tell her soon to slacken off.

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally Posted by Gus

I've only expereinced it fairly recently in the N West. Wonder if we have a 'rogue' teacher on the loose.

Oooh hunt them down then string them up!!

Originally Posted by Gus

Ahem ... after the last time I tried giving feedback I thought it was just better to suffer the consequences.

That bad huh for putting up with it

[Daisy Chain]

[quote=Gus]I've only expereinced it fairly recently in the N West. Wonder if we have a 'rogue' teacher on the loose.

QUOTE]

Funny you should say that. During the intermediat lesson at Bowden last night, 1 man looked relieved as I took his proffered hand and said to me "thank heaven, a lady without a death grip"

Daisy

(A Light-fingered Little Flower)

[Gus]

Originally Posted by Donna

I'm sure somebody else will tell her soon to slacken off.

Ugg ... looks like I'm confusing the issue again. The follower isnt applying pressure or gripping hard (the lass last night is a very good dancer which makes this change more difficult to understand). Its sinmply that instead of draping her hand vertically, she's draping her hand horizontally. I can't understand why someone would change their grip like this. I know that Paul T (NZ dance god) uses a stronger variant of this grip to move the ladies with speed when doing dynamic lifts or drops but none of that style has been taught in our region to my knowledge. I was wondering whether this grip has come across from another dance style like salsa.

[Donna]

Originally Posted by Gus

Ugg ... looks like I'm confusing the issue again. The follower isnt applying pressure or gripping hard (the lass last night is a very good dancer which makes this change more difficult to understand). Its sinmply that instead of draping her hand vertically, she's draping her hand horizontally. I can't understand why someone would change their grip like this. I know that Paul T (NZ dance god) uses a stronger variant of this grip to move the ladies with speed when doing dynamic lifts or drops but none of that style has been taught in our region to my knowledge. I was wondering whether this grip has come across from another dance style like salsa.

Ah ok. Strange way to hold the hand! That wouldn't even come naturally to me at all! Must have picked it up from somewhere.

[bigdjiver]

If it is what I think it is, it came from rock'n'roll.

[MartinHarper]

Would this be in a right-right grip?

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by bigdjiver

If it is what I think it is, it came from rock'n'roll.

That is what I initially thought. But Gus' second attempt of a description had me all confussssssed.

It does imply that you, Gus, proffer your hand palm straight up, is that correct? Or are we possibly talking about a crossed hand hold? If it the latter then yes, I am familiar with that one and I also tend to use it every now and again, depending on the direction of the lead. When I say 'use it' I mean that turn the hands into such a position, not that the lady necessarily places her hand in such a way.

[drathzel]

i'm confused too, can we have a diagram?

If someone is using a hand hold thats incorrect when deom-ing for me i always change it, or say to them. I have a demo that always offers me the wrong hand cuz they arent thinking about the next move and this can be confusing, i refuse to take his hand till hes offering the right one, this i think has made him think more about whats coming up!

[Gus]

Originally Posted by drathzel

i'm confused too, can we have a diagram?

No diagram, but a clearer explanation. Imagine the standard right to right hand hold. Ladies hand rests ON TOP of the guys hand with finger pointing down while the guy, in classic style, has his hand at waist level with his palm facing his stomach. OK, now picture the lady rotating her wrist by 90 degrees (to the right). Her end of her fingers are still on the inside of the guys hand but her palm is now resting against the end of the guys fingers (bit like a reverse ball and socket lead gone very wrong). Does that make it clearer?

As for correcting thengrip, I did several times but she kept on reverting to this styel. Its obviously ingrained and I was curous as to whether there had been a new 'improvement' on the scene and I'd missed it.

[Piglet]

I've not come across this at all, but perhaps "they" think it gives a better grip as the fingers can all fold around each other.

I think I may sometimes end up in a grip like this as a follower during freestyle, but it would be more to do with my bad judgement of where my lead's hand was, but I'm sure it would be in a move where I'm behind the lead's back... I'm going to think about this tonight (if I remember )

[Genie]

s for correcting thengrip, I did several times but she kept on reverting to this styel. Its obviously ingrained and I was curous as to whether there had been a new 'improvement' on the scene and I'd missed it.

No no, because if there is, we've all missed it. I am still struggling to get my head around this grip. I've no idea.

Could it be a hand hold that these ladies are bringing in from another form of dance, that they're still trying to get rid of? I know I struggled to get the gripright (and still do) from my previous dance styles.

Let me see if I get this right - your right to her right? And the hands are both horizontally placed, like she was going into a lead hand hold backwards to yours? I can imagine that would be difficult to lead. Could it be that they're women recently learning to lead?

[DavidB]

Originally Posted by Gus

No diagram, but a clearer explanation.

Are you saying that the lady is holding her hand in exactly the same way as the man is holding his hand (fingers slightly bent, palm towards stomach, thumb on top)? You then both have the tips of your fingers digging into the base of your partner's fingers?

If so, has this lady done a lot of leading recently? It is the grip you usually get from a man the first time he follows.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by DavidB

If so, has this lady done a lot of leading recently? It is the grip you usually get from a man the first time he follows.

Don't the "lead become followers" realise that they've got the wrong grip quite quickly though because obviously the responding partner's hand isn't in the correct position?

[MartinHarper]

Just drape your fingers over the top of her index finger (as if you were following) and lead her like that. Gives you a similar level of control as the other way round, and it's perfectly comfortable.

[drathzel]

I have had leaders and probably do myself that revert to a similar hand hold when leading the catapult and its variations, could it have come from this?

[Rhythm King]

I came across something like this at Nottingham a few weeks ago, where some of the ladies were effectively twisting my left hand so that it was almost palm up, with their fingers horizontal to the floor. Don't know if this was due to their being leaders too, because the beginners weren't doing it, only the (late arriving) intermediates.

Mind you the way a number of the Nottingham ladies dance, you get a large, back-led semicircle and the next thing you know she's stepped so far back, she's in Derby.

I should add that the experience wasn't entirely negative and I had some lovely dances too.

R-K