Intermediate leading help

[Jazz_Shoes (Ash)]

Hi forumites, iv'e been leading for months now, but only know two intermediate moves. I never have the guts to try the classes anymore because there always seems to be a spinny thing that confuses me or something similar. I'm soo sick of the beginner moves, and I think i'm managing to get worse at leading them. Maybe it's the lack of time I have to go the classes? Anyway, any help is much appreciated, thanks in advance. xxx

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Jazz_Shoes (Ash)

Hi forumites, iv'e been leading for months now, but only know two intermediate moves. I never have the guts to try the classes anymore because there always seems to be a spinny thing that confuses me or something similar. I'm soo sick of the beginner moves, and I think i'm managing to get worse at leading them. Maybe it's the lack of time I have to go the classes? Anyway, any help is much appreciated, thanks in advance. xxx

You can go here and get a dvd and learn the moves in the comfort of your own home. Some are dead easy - LH comb. Others take a while to get right in freestyle - it can be frustrating, but relax and it'll come.

Or go here and look very carefully at Gadget's signature. At the bottom in grey are links to useful documents to increase your repertoire - especially "Moves, moves, moves"

Or politely ask people during the freestyle to show you how to do a simple intermediate move they know when the music finishes

Or do a specialist workshop

Be relaxed when you're leding and every now and then you'll create a new move - figure out how and keep it.

Get a friend to spend an afternoon with you and teach you some moves - bribe them with chocolate if necessary!

Lastly the actual classes themselves have get-out clauses. Fixed partners is the easy one. Watch the demo, agree which moves you're interested in and just sit out the ones you don't like at the bar. To be honest, you're better off getting one move down than 3 that you kinda, maybe sort of get.

Have fun,
Christopher

[Gadget]

Originally Posted by Jazz_Shoes (Ash)

Hi forumites, iv'e been leading for months now, but only know two intermediate moves. I never have the guts to try the classes anymore because there always seems to be a spinny thing that confuses me or something similar. I'm soo sick of the beginner moves, and I think i'm managing to get worse at leading them. Maybe it's the lack of time I have to go the classes? Anyway, any help is much appreciated, thanks in advance. xxx

I don't understand what you're asking:
- Whether to go into the improver class? - yea,m go for it - no difference between you and may other leads at this stage in their leading "development". In fact, you should be able to deal with 'spinny things' better than most leads since you can do them from the other side.

- How to get more intermediate moves without going to the classes? - Find a lead that does a move you like, and ask them to teach you it. Very few would be able to resist your charms

- What intermediate moves can you do that are relativly easy? - If you've got the beginners moves, then there are very few intermediate moves that you can't find some paralells with.

- How to do more with the moves you have? - see the "moves, moves, moves" link in my syg.

Hope that helps
{ cross posting}

[Tessalicious]

Hey Ash, only just saw this thread, but let me just say I can sympathise. When I first started leading, partly so that I could dance with my mum and other females friends, I was far too nervous to do the intermediate class. Then I realised that the only advantages men doing those classes have over me are strength - and that is only for some - and practice. Since it would be pretty obvious to a partner or to me if I were not strong enough to do any class moves, I felt pretty safe there, and I wanted to be able to practise, but knew that I could only practise if I had learnt something in the first place.

So, I started off as Gadget suggests by asking some friendly men that were good leaders to show me some of their core moves (I remember the strangled look on my female partner's face the first time I was shown how to do a neckbreak). When I came to the conclusion that they really weren't that hard, I forced myself to have the confidence to upgrade myself from beginner lead to intermediate, and have never looked back.

The most important thing to do is to remember that your greatest advantages as a female lead are that you know what not to do (things that you find uncomfortable when you are led into them) and that even when getting the move totally wrong you don't have to feel self-conscious because you're probably not trying too hard to impress the lady you're dancing with, and you don't lose control of your limbs and/or hips. These things should help you to feel better about practising your lead - although at first I would still recommend that you mainly stick with ladies you know well for this, as you will feel more comfortable trying things out that way.

Good luck!

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Tessalicious

Then I realised that the only advantages men doing those classes have over me are strength - and that is only for some

(snip - good stuff)

The other thing recently mentioned on the Singletons Sofa, was that just because you're leading doesn't mean that you have to dance like a guy. I know one female non-Forumite who's styled out the beginners moves in a very sexy way that frankly would look ridiculous if a guy tried to do exactly the same .

Take care,
Christopher

[Stuart M]

Originally Posted by Jazz_Shoes (Ash)

Hi forumites, iv'e been leading for months now, but only know two intermediate moves. I never have the guts to try the classes anymore because there always seems to be a spinny thing that confuses me or something similar.

I went through a long period of dropping out of the Intermediate class half way through. No harm in doing that, in my opinion - learning one move successfully would be better than getting confused by three.

[TA Guy]

Took me ten weeks to attempt my first intermediates class. In my defense, for all that period, we had no female taxi dancer, that said, I was crap, absolutely dire.

At the intermediates classes at one of my venues, there is usually an extra row down the end of the room. This row consist of fixed pairs of ladies doing the intermediates class. That seems possibly a good way to do it (esp considering the 'ladies over' situation sometimes) without any fear of upsetting ladies in the main class.

[Almost an Angel]

Originally Posted by Jazz_Shoes (Ash)

Hi forumites, iv'e been leading for months now, but only know two intermediate moves. I never have the guts to try the classes anymore because there always seems to be a spinny thing that confuses me or something similar. I'm soo sick of the beginner moves, and I think i'm managing to get worse at leading them. Maybe it's the lack of time I have to go the classes? Anyway, any help is much appreciated, thanks in advance. xxx

Hi Ash,
Not been online for a few days so only just seen this.

Firstly it is hard- there's no getting away from it, you're trying to reverse a move you probably already know and lead your partner as well as looking good. I'd agree with Gadget, Stuart and TA Guys advice and at least try the intermediate classes - even if you drop out after a move or two, you'll have picked up another move and that's the whole point, I know lots of dancers who have started out in the Intermediate and appeared in the beginners consolidation class half way through, there's no problem with this.

If you're not brave enough to risk the class rotation, ask one of your female friends to stay fixed partners with you. Especially if they can already lead as they will be able to help you or are able to follow well and slightly assist (OK backlead) you through the moves. Above all you need to persevere through the 'I can't do this' you can, you just need to learn how.

Again echoing Gadget and Ghost's posts - ask a lead to show you a few moves. Every so often I get asked by guys to show them how to lead moves they've seen seen me dancing with another lady, even funnier is when they throw them back at me when I'm following!! That's the great thing about friends they're always willing to help out.

I started out by learning the beginners moves and helping out in the consolidation class, but I was also shown some variations of beginners moves that I could already lead which built my confidence.
For example - in a first move, turn the follow out as normal but when bringing them back into face keep the hand low taking it out forward to your left hand side allowing the follow to barrier into it before returning them. Or add twists instead of returning the follow. You're only changing one element of what you already know so it increases the core moves you have to call upon.
PM me if you want some more variations of basic moves. I have lots.

Keep on with the leading and don't give up.

Angel xxx

[Chef]

My partner Dawn often leads me (or others) in the intermediate classes and she tells me that the hardest thing is not leading in the classes, it is getting into freestyle and suddenly finding her mind has gone blank just as she is finishing a move. Music still going, follower looking quizzical, leader not able to think of anything coherant.

If it is any help for your frustration levels, ALL leads go through this stage and it is worth having a few "filler moves" ready for those times when your mind goes blank.

When you ask a female friend to help you by being your follower choose the very best one that can because only the best will refuse to help you out and "autocomplete" your move for you. It will be a little tough at first but it will force you to learn to really lead the move.

Good luck. Experiencing the dance from the other persons perspective is a great way to gain insight into what you should be doing in your normal role.

[Trish]

Hi Ash

I found it difficult when I first started leading, but at one point early on I went to a party with lots of girl cerocers and very few men, and was frustrated enough with not dancing to persevere with it. The other thing that helped with this was that I'd had a few drinks! As I only really knew beginner's moves and soon got bored with these I started trying to think through the easier intermediate moves that I knew as a follow and watch the men to try to get ideas. This lead to me trying out things like basket walkrounds and various armjive variations with my sister, which I got the hang of pretty quick really.

I would say your best bet is to relax (with or without alcohol, depending on your preference), find a close girl friend who is up for a laugh, and just experiment with different moves for a while (dance moves that is, this sounds a bit dodgy!!). Once I'd got a few intermediate moves under my belt I went into the classes. I figured I'd actually got an advantage over a lot of the men, as I knew what not to do (as Tessalicious said), and I also had some idea of where a lot of the moves were going. It was just getting your head round the fact you were doing them from the other standpoint that was a bit tricky to start with, although this can make for some interesting variations!

Hope it goes well. Get brave and go in the class, what's the worst that can happen? You can always drop out if it goes horribly pear shaped! Oh, and practice, practice, practice!!!

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Trish

find a close girl friend who is up for a laugh,

Or get a fixed partner who's a guy. We're great because we have no idea what the blazes we're supposed to be doing. We can just think about football, or girls or how pretty your eyes are, and follow.



Have fun,
Christopher

[Trish]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Or get a fixed partner who's a guy. We're great because we have no idea what the blazes we're supposed to be doing. We can just think about football, or girls or how pretty your eyes are, and follow.



Have fun,
Christopher

Yes, this might work, but the problem I've found is it's a bit like telling a beginner guy to practice on a beginner girl, sounds like a good idea, but in practice the beginner girl may well panick and turn in all the wrong places, even if she's not being lead to do so (I know I did this as a beginner follower)! I would still say you're better off practicing with girls generally, unless you're lucky enough to find an experienced male follower (which are generally in short supply, but good if you can get 'em !) The other thing with most male followers (not all, I have danced with some lovely gentle ones), is that they tend to try to take over and yank you, which if you're not used to what you're doing in the first place could be rather off-putting - to those that give it a go though, it helps you understand what the followers are going through.

Christopher, I'm sure if you're thinking about football and girls then no doubt you're following is lovely, as you won't be panicking about the next move, or trying to take over. If you're ever in the Peterborough area PM me and I'd be happy to lead you if I'm about

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Trish

Yes, this might work, but the problem I've found is it's a bit like telling a beginner guy to practice on a beginner girl, sounds like a good idea,

Originally Posted by Trish

(snip) good stuff

Yeah it's swings and roundabouts. I feel if you can lead a guy who isn't an experienced follow, then you can lead most people. I'd recommend using a friend who was willing to just chill and follow. The other benefit, though it needs to be done at the lady's request otherwise it gets annoying, is that if the lady just can't get the move, she can ask the guy how he does part X (How do you get the arm into a half nelson from here?) I occassionally swap roles when learning new moves to get a deeper insight into how it feels - helps me lead it better.

Originally Posted by Trish

to those that give it a go though, it helps you understand what the followers are going through.

I've made quite a few changes in my leading style because of it

Originally Posted by Trish

Christopher, I'm sure if you're thinking about football and girls then no doubt you're following is lovely, as you won't be panicking about the next move, or trying to take over. If you're ever in the Peterborough area PM me and I'd be happy to lead you if I'm about

Actually it's option No 3 I think about - be happy to be lead about by you though

Take care,
Christopher

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Get a fixed partner who's a guy. We're great because we have no idea what the blazes we're supposed to be doing.

proof if proof were needed (yeah, Lindy - not enough Ceroc stuff on the 'net).

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

proof if proof were needed (yeah, Lindy - not enough Ceroc stuff on the 'net).

I wondered what you might come back with

Christopher

[Jazz_Shoes (Ash)]

Ah, thanks guys that's all good advice... but i'm still chickening out of the classes at the mo (I did manage two a month or so ago though ) I think i'll try practicing with a friend, that sounds like a very good idea. Don't worry i'll be handing out lots of rep

ash x

[spindr]

How about trying to learn a bit of leading by doing some sabotages

SpinDr.

[Petal]

Originally Posted by Ghost

Or do a specialist workshop

The bridging workshops would be a good idea, to help you to make the move from beginners to intermdiate.