Learning new dances: does MJ help or hinder?

**David Bailey** · 13th-November-2007, 08:05 AM

In some ways, the fact that I know and am comfortable with MJ, gives me less incentive to step outside my comfort zone and commit to another dance. So if I didn't have MJ as a safety net, I might progress faster with other dances.

On the other hand, I've learnt a lot from MJ, and it does give me that safety net, so that I can always dance somewhere - so my confidence can be knocked, but it's easier to recover from it.

So, I'm not sure whether MJ is holding me back, or it's supporting me - possibly a bit of both, I guess.

What are other people's thoughts?

timbp · 13th-November-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJames

What are other people's thoughts?

I know I can dance, because beautiful women seek me out to ask me to dance MJ with them.
So I ought to be more confident: "I know I can master this".

On the other hand, I hate being a beginner.

I have tried WCS, and I love the dance. But I have tended to dance MJ rather than WCS because I can dance MJ.

Similarly, although I have been trying to learn AT, I keep going back to dancing MJ socially because I am good at it, where I am not (yet) good at AT.

The difference between AT and WCS is I see more opportunity to dance AT in Sydney than to dance WCS. So there is more reason to put the effort into learning AT.

*Andy McGregor* · 13th-November-2007, 11:49 AM

My opinion (please note Caro, I do say it when it's true

) is that MJ is a comfort zone for those who learnt it first. Plus, there's plenty of it about and you can do it to most music. Most other dances need a more careful choice of music - therefore we do MJ when we hear an MJable tune rather than say "ooh, this is a Cha Cha Cha, I'll find a partner that can do it".

My guess, based on the number of dedicated ballroom dancing schools is that there are still more people learning ballroom dancing. At ballroom dancing classes you learn many dances. None of them inhibits the others and many of the skills are common across more than one dance.

I think that the skills you learn at MJ can also be carried over to other partner dances. However, I think the problem lies in the way that many people are taught MJ - they get little or no individual feedback so they develop a catalogue of bad habits. It would be a great hindrance if they took those bad habits into other, stricter, dance forms.

**Gadget** · 13th-November-2007, 12:50 PM

I would say that most of it would be a help - knowing how to move, about connection, moving your partner, listening to the music, learning a routine... etc.

Some of it would hinder - going into 'automatic', improvising, erm.... I can't really think on anything else.

**JonD** · 13th-November-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadget

I would say that most of it would be a help - knowing how to move, about connection, moving your partner, listening to the music, learning a routine... etc.

I totally agree. MJ may be very accessible to beginners but it can also be extremely challenging. All the fundamentals of partner dancing seem to be there and, from my limited knowledge, I imagine experience of those fundamentals gained in MJ can be transferred to other partner dances.

I can't think how MJ would do anything but help - but then I'd never danced a step until I discovered MJ and my only subsequent experience is with AT and bits of Lindy, Salsa and WCS. For me, the big thing is the confidence learning MJ gave me: if I hadn't learnt MJ I doubt if I'd have had the confidence to ever attempt AT. That confidence means I believe that I could learn any partner dance to a reasonable level of competence if I'm prepared to concentrate and practice.

**straycat** · 13th-November-2007, 01:33 PM

I think some of the skills I picked up in MJ have helped me in other dances, yes - but it has also been a huge hinderance. Nowadays, I've learned that to learn a new dance, I need to put aside the others that I know during lessons. Otherwise I just end up doing MJ or Lindy with a Tango flavour, for example, instead of Tango.

When I learned Lindy, it took a long long time to realise to what extent I was doing 'lindy' flavoured MJ. It was only when I managed to start correcting that that I realised what an amazing dance it was. And I do see a huge number of people who make the same mistake.

I do think that learning MJ can help a lot when learning other dances - but people should beware of transferring skills and techniques from MJ to other dances, because you really do risk missing out on what makes those dances special.

**David Bailey** · 13th-November-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by straycat264

When I learned Lindy, it took a long long time to realise to what extent I was doing 'lindy' flavoured MJ.

Same with me and salsa - it took me probably 2 years to stop bouncing around

**JonD** · 13th-November-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by straycat264

I've learned that to learn a new dance, I need to put aside the others that I know during lessons.

You're right - I hadn't thought about that element. I don't remember it being an issue in the early days of AT but it certainly was with the little bit of Lindy & Salsa I've done. Mind you, it didn't take me long to realise that I had to be careful to draw only on the relevant bits of my MJ experience and put the rest aside.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timbp

On the other hand, I hate being a beginner.

That can be a negative - MJ is so accessible that even a complete biff like me felt I could dance after about 4 months. Going from MJ, at which I'd become vaguely competent, to feeling unable to dance AT at even the most basic level was truly horrible. I remember having a fairly major "crisis" after I'd been learning AT for about 18 months and still felt I was incapable of expressing anything in the dance.

**straycat** · 13th-November-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJames

Same with me and salsa - it took me probably 2 years to stop bouncing around

I confess, wrt Salsa, I don't practice what I preach. In fact - I simply don't do Salsa. I do some kind of Lindy / MJ / Salsa blend, with made-up moves and the odd cross-body thrown in. This is mainly because I decided quite a while back that I really didn't have time to actually learn Salsa, so I did the next best thing, and learned a way of dancing to Salsa rhythms. Although some of the local salsa follows seem to find this confusing for some strange reason...

**David Bailey** · 13th-November-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by straycat264

I confess, wrt Salsa, I don't practice what I preach. In fact - I simply don't do Salsa. I do some kind of Lindy / MJ / Salsa blend, with made-up moves and the odd cross-body thrown in.

OK.... That sounds, erm, interesting

Quote:

Originally Posted by straycat264

This is mainly because I decided quite a while back that I really didn't have time to actually learn Salsa, so I did the next best thing, and learned a way of dancing to Salsa rhythms.

Well, to be fair, me too - I simply move to the rhythm and throw in whatever movements I feel appropriate at the time. I suspect most of us multi-dancerals will use bits from one dance in another.

In fact, that's also pretty much how I do MJ, but I'm a bit more rusty with salsa, as I've only been a dozen times in the past year or so, and I didn't go at all for a couple of years before that. OTOH I probably peaked higher with salsa than with MJ.

*Andy McGregor* · 13th-November-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I probably peaked higher with salsa than with MJ.

Must fight it, must resist...

... NOooooooooooo...

.. so, you went to Salsa for what? Four weeks?

**David Bailey** · 13th-November-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy McGregor

.. so, you went to Salsa for what? Four weeks?

Good guess.

Only 516 weeks out - by your standards, that's dead-on

Ghost · 13th-November-2007, 04:29 PM

I think it's a glass is half empty / half full thing

You can look at dancing style xyz and go
"Arghhhhhhhhh I'm truly appauling

"

Or you can go
"Hey ho, only another 5 years to go till I can walk. But in the meantime I can console myself with lovely dances in style abc and every now and then I'll get a moment in xyz too

"

jemessex · 13th-November-2007, 04:44 PM

I see most are saying that MJ has hindered the way they dance other styles...but what about from the other aspect.
Can we have some opinions from salsa, lindy, street, jazz, ballroom dancers etc

who learnt MJ after they had learnt their main dance and whether their main style of dance hindered the way they learnt MJ.
Why do have this notion that MJ is perceived as the weakest style of dance??

**David Bailey** · 13th-November-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jemessex

Why do have this notion that MJ is perceived as the weakest style of dance??

It's more that it's the "entry" dance - classically, people try MJ first because it's easy to pick up, then move onto something else when they hit limitations.

Plus, this is (sort of) an MJ forum

jemessex · 13th-November-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJames

It's more that it's the "entry" dance - classically, people try MJ first because it's easy to pick up, then move onto something else when they hit limitations.

Listening to and reading the media you would have thought that salsa and ballroom are the ones that people try first

**Caro** · 13th-November-2007, 05:05 PM

To be honest, I think what MJ brings to otherwise non-dancers is truly phenomenal: after a few months you realise that you can:
- move in a coordinated fashion with a partner, one leads, one follows
- do that to music, and in time
- actually find it easy and enjoy dancing

It seems fairly trivial for most of us now, but it is a big deal. I, for a start, use to think that I would never be able to do that (having failed miserably at both rock'n'roll and salsa).

I dread to think what it would have been like going to AT or WCS with no prior dance experience what-so-ever. I dread to think what it would be like to teach WCS to a group of non dancers

Yes, when you move on to a different dance you will have to work on your MJ 'bad habits' (and after spending a lot of time and money on fixing that with WCS teachers, I know about that, believe me) and learn new technique. But try and imagine learning it from stratch, having to worry about coordination, moving with a partner, on the music, in addition to all the other footwork and technique stuff ??? Not a chance it would have happened, to me anyway.

TA Guy · 13th-November-2007, 05:05 PM

Hard to answer since you either have MJ experience or you don't, but I've been much more willing to try new dances since becoming an MJ old man, so I would answer it helps.

It depends on the dance tho. I've found WCS a close relative of MJ and I don't understand people who say they love WCS because of the extra slink, smoothness, better connection etc. These are all good attributes in MJ as well, and I've found they interchange pretty well perfectly. My forays into WCS have not impacted on my MJ at all as far as I can tell and as a result, (if I had a local class/freestyle), I would be a regular WCS'er

On the other hand, my one taster class of AT did nothing so much as demonstrate the differences between the two dance styles. I can't help but feel my MJ might be a hinderance and any attempt by me to learn this dance would necessitate a large drop in the standard of my MJ (as I had to rewrite 'good for MJ', but 'bad for AT' habits) and (to me, at this point in time) that's not worth the price. In a few years maybe

I think in the end a lot of it comes down to an individuals style. My style as developed in MJ over the years seems to suit WCS, and probably it would suit certain flavours of Lindy as well, on the other hand, the 'walkie' (for want of a better description) dances don't seem to naturally suit me. For others it must be the other way round.

**ducasi** · 13th-November-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caro

Yes, when you move on to a different dance you will have to work on your MJ 'bad habits' (and after spending a lot of time and money on fixing that with WCS teachers, I know about that, believe me) and learn new technique. ...

I don't think of my MJ habits as 'bad' – just 'different'.

But that's

13th-November-2007, 08:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
David Bailey Formerly known as DavidJames Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Norf Lundin Posts: 14,662 Status: Yes Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 8 Rep.: 4094	Learning new dances: does MJ help or hinder? In some ways, the fact that I know and am comfortable with MJ, gives me less incentive to step outside my comfort zone and commit to another dance. So if I didn't have MJ as a safety net, I might progress faster with other dances. On the other hand, I've learnt a lot from MJ, and it does give me that safety net, so that I can always dance somewhere - so my confidence can be knocked, but it's easier to recover from it. So, I'm not sure whether MJ is holding me back, or it's supporting me - possibly a bit of both, I guess. What are other people's thoughts? __________________ Jivetango Godfather "Captain Rocky, superhero and villain all rolled into one bearded, portly package..."

13th-November-2007, 11:49 AM	#3 (permalink)
Andy McGregor Commercial Operator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sussex by the Sea Posts: 7,493 Status: More sexy than Dave The Scaffolder Rep Power: 5 Rep.: 1754	Re: Learning new dances: does MJ help or hinder? My opinion (please note Caro, I do say it when it's true ) is that MJ is a comfort zone for those who learnt it first. Plus, there's plenty of it about and you can do it to most music. Most other dances need a more careful choice of music - therefore we do MJ when we hear an MJable tune rather than say "ooh, this is a Cha Cha Cha, I'll find a partner that can do it". My guess, based on the number of dedicated ballroom dancing schools is that there are still more people learning ballroom dancing. At ballroom dancing classes you learn many dances. None of them inhibits the others and many of the skills are common across more than one dance. I think that the skills you learn at MJ can also be carried over to other partner dances. However, I think the problem lies in the way that many people are taught MJ - they get little or no individual feedback so they develop a catalogue of bad habits. It would be a great hindrance if they took those bad habits into other, stricter, dance forms. __________________ “Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein

13th-November-2007, 12:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
Gadget Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cruden Bay (Aberdeen) Posts: 6,156 Status: Gigalo for hire Rep Power: 5 Rep.: 1527	Re: Learning new dances: does MJ help or hinder? I would say that most of it would be a help - knowing how to move, about connection, moving your partner, listening to the music, learning a routine... etc. Some of it would hinder - going into 'automatic', improvising, erm.... I can't really think on anything else. __________________ I used to be an angel, you know with halo and those wings; Now that i'm a devil, my mind's on other things... My feathers turned to ash, and my harp has broke in two; I took uppon myself, to have a dance with you... ¤ TheEvolutionOfMJ ¤ SensualDancing ¤ TechniquesOfLeading ¤ MarkOfaGoodTeacher ¤ Style ¤ Moves,moves,moves ¤ MoveMap ¤ DanceingTest ¤ DanceFloorSlease ¤

13th-November-2007, 01:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
straycat Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Northeastern Parts Posts: 3,860 Status: woke up clipped Rep Power: 4 Rep.: 1791	Re: Learning new dances: does MJ help or hinder? I think some of the skills I picked up in MJ have helped me in other dances, yes - but it has also been a huge hinderance. Nowadays, I've learned that to learn a new dance, I need to put aside the others that I know during lessons. Otherwise I just end up doing MJ or Lindy with a Tango flavour, for example, instead of Tango. When I learned Lindy, it took a long long time to realise to what extent I was doing 'lindy' flavoured MJ. It was only when I managed to start correcting that that I realised what an amazing dance it was. And I do see a huge number of people who make the same mistake. I do think that learning MJ can help a lot when learning other dances - but people should beware of transferring skills and techniques from MJ to other dances, because you really do risk missing out on what makes those dances special. __________________ Straycat Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend...

13th-November-2007, 04:29 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ghost Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astral Posts: 3,162 Status: No Status Rep Power: 2 Rep.: 1175	Re: Learning new dances: does MJ help or hinder? I think it's a glass is half empty / half full thing You can look at dancing style xyz and go "Arghhhhhhhhh I'm truly appauling " Or you can go "Hey ho, only another 5 years to go till I can walk. But in the meantime I can console myself with lovely dances in style abc and every now and then I'll get a moment in xyz too "

13th-November-2007, 04:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
jemessex Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Colchester Posts: 93 Status: No Status Rep Power: 1 Rep.: 51	Re: Learning new dances: does MJ help or hinder? I see most are saying that MJ has hindered the way they dance other styles...but what about from the other aspect. Can we have some opinions from salsa, lindy, street, jazz, ballroom dancers etc who learnt MJ after they had learnt their main dance and whether their main style of dance hindered the way they learnt MJ. Why do have this notion that MJ is perceived as the weakest style of dance??

13th-November-2007, 05:05 PM	#17 (permalink)
Caro Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 2,484 Status: No Status Rep Power: 3 Rep.: 1688	Re: Learning new dances: does MJ help or hinder? To be honest, I think what MJ brings to otherwise non-dancers is truly phenomenal: after a few months you realise that you can: - move in a coordinated fashion with a partner, one leads, one follows - do that to music, and in time - actually find it easy and enjoy dancing It seems fairly trivial for most of us now, but it is a big deal. I, for a start, use to think that I would never be able to do that (having failed miserably at both rock'n'roll and salsa). I dread to think what it would have been like going to AT or WCS with no prior dance experience what-so-ever. I dread to think what it would be like to teach WCS to a group of non dancers Yes, when you move on to a different dance you will have to work on your MJ 'bad habits' (and after spending a lot of time and money on fixing that with WCS teachers, I know about that, believe me) and learn new technique. But try and imagine learning it from stratch, having to worry about coordination, moving with a partner, on the music, in addition to all the other footwork and technique stuff ??? Not a chance it would have happened, to me anyway. __________________ . Little Miss Whipme

13th-November-2007, 05:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
TA Guy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sunny South Hampshire Posts: 723 Status: No Status Rep Power: 2 Rep.: 354	Re: Learning new dances: does MJ help or hinder? Hard to answer since you either have MJ experience or you don't, but I've been much more willing to try new dances since becoming an MJ old man, so I would answer it helps. It depends on the dance tho. I've found WCS a close relative of MJ and I don't understand people who say they love WCS because of the extra slink, smoothness, better connection etc. These are all good attributes in MJ as well, and I've found they interchange pretty well perfectly. My forays into WCS have not impacted on my MJ at all as far as I can tell and as a result, (if I had a local class/freestyle), I would be a regular WCS'er On the other hand, my one taster class of AT did nothing so much as demonstrate the differences between the two dance styles. I can't help but feel my MJ might be a hinderance and any attempt by me to learn this dance would necessitate a large drop in the standard of my MJ (as I had to rewrite 'good for MJ', but 'bad for AT' habits) and (to me, at this point in time) that's not worth the price. In a few years maybe I think in the end a lot of it comes down to an individuals style. My style as developed in MJ over the years seems to suit WCS, and probably it would suit certain flavours of Lindy as well, on the other hand, the 'walkie' (for want of a better description) dances don't seem to naturally suit me. For others it must be the other way round.