Difference between ECS and WCS?

[Brian Doolan]

Originally Posted by Little Miss

Why can't we all love the dancing we do and enjoy watching others do their thing?

[~*~Saligal~*~]

Check out this site for ECS steps and info : Learn to dance EC Swing with Ballroomdancers.com!
It notes the tempo, basic rhythm as well as the basic steps via video and broken down in a text format - broken down into the lead and follow movements. You might find this handy when comparing the two dances.
I learnt ECS at Fred Astaire dance studio (I guess that's equivalent to Arthur Murrays?) - and then went off to do ballroom competitively, where I learnt ballroom jive. I found there wasn't an awful lot of difference. Generally it's the same - cept you feel like a "grasshopper on heat" when doing the ballroom version cos of it's "bounciness".

[straycat]

Originally Posted by ducasi

In which case, do these guys know what a tautology is?

Certainly do! Have you come across the term 'over-simplification'?

[mick s]

Perhaps we need another room at Southport!

[carmi50]

ECS
look at :
Combining All The Swing Dancing Moves! | ExpertVillage Videos

the couple is travelling around.
fw : ts ts rs
======
WCS
look at:
How to Put Patterns Together for West Coast Swing Dancing | ExpertVillage Videos

the lady is moving in a slot, man is staying in his spot.

fw : rs ts ts

=====================
A lot of moves are similliars. However moves like sugar push, circle are more often used in wcs.

Both of them - ecs , wcs may include 8 count steps in certain moves/

[JiveLad]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Based on my experience:
East Coast is back-on-1, West Coast is forward-on-1.
East Coast is mostly 6-count, West Coast is mostly 8-count.
East Coast is not slotted, West Coast is.
East Coast is low technique, West Coast is high technique.
East Coast is danced to faster music than West Coast.
East Coast has rolling shoulders (like Foxtrot), West Coast has level shoulders (like mannequins on roller skates).

East Coast is lead/follow-compatible with six-beat Lindy, to the extent that people question whether it is a different dance.

Hi Martin

I'm sure you know a lot more about it - especially being where you are.

When I was in California and learning Swing.....I went here:

Sacramento Swing Dancing Midtown Stomp Swing Dance Lindy Hop

...which does East Coast Swing/Lindy.

As I remember, with ECS - it was all taught 'in the slot' - that was a key part of it. So I'm wondering why you say it is not slotted.

Not a big issue - I'm just interested...............

Thx.

Not sure what happened to the font there............?

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by JiveLad

As I remember, with ECS - it was all taught 'in the slot' - that was a key part of it. So I'm wondering why you say it is not slotted.

Many moves can be danced slotted if the couple wish. If you are only taught these moves, and you are lucky enough to get a teacher who emphasises technique points, I can imagine this would make the dance seem slotted. However East Coast also has "walkaround" moves, like Modern Jive, which are inherently rotational. Additionally, many people dance it non-slotted socially, again like Modern Jive.

Having said that, East Coast is loosely defined, and I've only experienced it in a few places, so I wouldn't want to contradict your teacher in Sacramento.

[~*~Saligal~*~]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Based on my experience:
East Coast is back-on-1, West Coast is forward-on-1.
East Coast is mostly 6-count, West Coast is mostly 8-count.
East Coast is not slotted, West Coast is.
East Coast is low technique, West Coast is high technique.
East Coast is danced to faster music than West Coast.
East Coast has rolling shoulders (like Foxtrot), West Coast has level shoulders (like mannequins on roller skates).

East Coast is lead/follow-compatible with six-beat Lindy, to the extent that people question whether it is a different dance.

Originally Posted by JiveLad

Hi Martin

I'm sure you know a lot more about it - especially being where you are.

When I was in California and learning Swing.....I went here:

Sacramento Swing Dancing Midtown Stomp Swing Dance Lindy Hop

...which does East Coast Swing/Lindy.

As I remember, with ECS - it was all taught 'in the slot' - that was a key part of it. So I'm wondering why you say it is not slotted.

Not a big issue - I'm just interested...............

Thx.

Not sure what happened to the font there............?

Yep - agree that correct technique has the dance somewhat slotted in nature.
Also, for ECS the dancer steps to the side on 1 rather than back.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by JiveLad

As I remember, with ECS - it was all taught 'in the slot' - that was a key part of it. So I'm wondering why you say it is not slotted.

Were you told specificially that it should be danced slotted or was it just taught that way? I guess the test would have been to watch everyone after your class or when dancing socially. If everyone is in parallel slots then you know that is definitely a key part of it.

Remember its easier to teach in slots just for practicalities of teaching - MJ is taught slotted - and it can be danced slotted (its funny how I now always dance slotted MJ with my WCS practice partner!) but doesn't have to be and certainly in practice on a social dance floor everyone is not dancing that way!

I've seen salsa taught slotted - but you try and find a slot to dance in at a salsa venue locally! (I know this cos we sometimes try dancing WCS at salsa venues.)

The main difference is that when you try to dance in a slot socially, if other dancers keep coming into your space, then they really don't have an understanding of 'slotted dancing'.

(Not making any comment about ECS as I don't know enough about it, just general comments.)

[clevedonboy]

Originally Posted by Lynn

I've seen salsa taught slotted - but you try and find a slot to dance in at a salsa venue locally! (I know this cos we sometimes try dancing WCS at salsa venues.)

NY Salsa is slotted Cuban is not. If you were dancing in a NY venue then something was odd if nobody was dancing in slots to say the least!

WRT ECS or Boogie Woogie or whatever you want to call it has slotted moves but it has rotational moves as well (it evolved from lindy so that is no surprise). It doesn't have a discipline for a follower to adhere to though like WCS or NY Salsa

[Jivejunkie]

I love the way people try to pigeon-hole music and dancing these days. My main music has been 50's and 60's rock and roll for 30 odd years and the dance I have always done is jive, which derived from the Lindy Hop/ Jitterbug, (which I've always wanted to do). Now it's 'modern' jive, which seems to indicate there was an old jive.
The fact is the music is swing and you jive to it! But there again some misguided dj's might refer to some of the stuff in the charts now as rock and roll and we dance 'modern' jive to it
When I first saw East Coast swing a few weeks ago I realised that is what I want, an easy form of lindy, I can't see any thing at all in common with West Coast swing, which is a dance I can't get my head around. but who cares the waltz hasn't really got anything in common with the tango, but they live together quite happily.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by clevedonboy

NY Salsa is slotted Cuban is not. If you were dancing in a NY venue then something was odd if nobody was dancing in slots to say the least!

I know, I just meant I've seen it taught slotted - as in class structure - teachers positioning on stage - just like in MJ.

Never danced in NY - I just know its hard to find a slot in a local venue no matter what style people are dancing! But its the same trying to do WCS in an MJ venue - you often have to move the slot mid dance (usually pick a quietish corner against a wall, even then people move into the slot at times.)

For the practicalities of teaching sometimes a dance is demonstrated that way, but not danced that way - that was all I meant.

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~

Also, for ECS the dancer steps to the side on 1 rather than back.

I was regarding the rock-step in East Coast as the "1" of each move, to give the closest comparison to West Coast, and because it's how we think of moves in Modern Jive. However, as you point out, it's often taught with moves starting on the first triple/slow, rather than starting on the rock step. I'm still unclear why they do this.

[~*~Saligal~*~]

Originally Posted by MartinHarper

I was regarding the rock-step in East Coast as the "1" of each move, to give the closest comparison to West Coast, and because it's how we think of moves in Modern Jive. However, as you point out, it's often taught with moves starting on the first triple/slow, rather than starting on the rock step. I'm still unclear why they do this.

They do this because it is the dance - does there have to be another reason?
I guess I wonder why it is that there are some people who have the urge to want to water different dances down so that the "rules"/technique of the dance are generic. This is a trend I see in some of the threads when dances are compared. Maybe I'm a dance snob, but I do prefer for each dance style's timing and footwork to be taught as it should be. How would it be for the WCS dancers who really love the dance style to find they've been taught a watered down version? or a version that isn't authentic to the actual dance style?
*getting off soap box now*

[NZ Monkey]

Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~

They do this because it is the dance - does there have to be another reason?
I guess I wonder why it is that there are some people who have the urge to want to water different dances down so that the "rules"/technique of the dance are generic. This is a trend I see in some of the threads when dances are compared. Maybe I'm a dance snob, but I do prefer for each dance style's timing and footwork to be taught as it should be. How would it be for the WCS dancers who really love the dance style to find they've been taught a watered down version? or a version that isn't authentic to the actual dance style?
*getting off soap box now*

I think MartinHarper was trying to say that sometimes moves are taught from the rock-step and other times they are taught from the point after the rock-step, apparently without much consistency. I'd wonder why they teach it that way if it's a wide-spread practice too. Either way - it isn't a comment on the dance's technique, just its presentation to students.

Comparisons with WCS seem reasonable considering the title of the thread is "Difference between ECS and WCS". The MJ reference I believe was just a case of MartinHarper recognizing his audience and presenting his thoughts in a way that is easiest for them (read: most of those reading this thread) to understand.

I agree with your sentiments however

[MartinHarper]

Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~

I wonder why it is that there are some people who have the urge to want to water different dances down so that the "rules"/technique of the dance are generic.

What makes you think I want to alter dances in that fashion? I'm merely curious as to the reasons behind some of the differences. One possibility is that Arthur Murray felt it was easier to teach ballroom students to "swing" if he aligned the footwork with Foxtrot, leading to SSQQ rather than QQSS. However, that's just speculation on my part. To be honest, I'm not even 100% sure what footwork Arthur Murray taught - the parallel with Foxtrot footwork may have been a later innovation. Do you happen to know the history here?

I've been taught East Coast with moves starting on the rock step, and I've been taught East Coast with moves starting on the first slow/triple - it seems to depend on the teacher. I don't know enough about the history to know which is more authentic as a teaching method, but given that they both produce the same dance, does it matter?